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Big Wall Index => Big Wall Forum => Topic started by: zippyslug on April 13, 2007, 11:18:19 am

Title: Krustyledge fly
Post by: zippyslug on April 13, 2007, 11:18:19 am
So I'm debating on trying to throw together a Krustyledge mostly because I don't want to invest in a ledge that I may not use much and, honestly, for the "fun" of it (might turn out to be more "work" than "fun", but oh well).

The only difference with my ledge, is that I am interested in making a fly for mine.
Specifically focusing on the fly for a minute, what exactly are your ledge flys made out of?  I've had many a tent, but all their flys have been taught, pole strewn affairs.  It does not appear that ledge flys have this requirement... or maybe I'm wrong?
Just wondering if (A) ledges use some sort of mystery material not requiring the tight fit to shed rain, (B) any type of Gor-blah/packcloth material will work since it doesn't actually need to be taught, or (C) sleeping in a ledge means sleeping wet so get used to it.

At this point, I'm running several ideas through my noodle attempting to make a taught, tent-like fly (with a pole) work with my ledge since I'm thinking this would shed rain much better plus give you more room inside.

Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: Garbonzo on April 13, 2007, 05:25:31 pm
The closest materials I found that looked like they'd work were "super K-cote" ripstop and oxford in 140d and 200d.  The 1.5 oz urethane coating looks to be the key.  I think Fish and others have a line on even better stuff, but this looks as good as it gets for the low volume audience.  See, and  If you know trigenometry at all the math for calculating out the cuts for Duece's single seam fly scheme is pretty easy.  If you not much of a math head I could post the equations I used.  The prime difficulties are dealing with the 60" fabric width, and trying to properly visualize the fit from a page of numbers.

Metolius seems to use double the fabric weight than everyone else for the sake of claiming burliness, so their flys are 430d or something like that.  I don't think it's necessary.  Nor to I think  the beds need to be 1600d.

Read up on Dueces posts, a metal frame out of aluminum or 4130 steel is not super hard or expensive.  Figure $3/foot for low volume tubing.  I'm recyling an old beater Fish ledge for my tinkering, but copper tubing corners are probably better than PVC.
Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: caribouman on April 13, 2007, 09:04:15 pm
Do a quick search of the forum, lots of ledge info

I'd like to suggest milled corner blocks, shouldn't be too hard in aluminum, I think you want to stay from copper.  I agree with the tent pole idea, I retrofit my ledge with one.  Definitely makes for more room inside.
Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: zippyslug on April 14, 2007, 03:03:23 pm
Anybody else build one of these thing (other than Krusty)?  Care to post a picture?  Can't really tell by the 'how to make it' pics and the parts list doesn't show copper tubing, but that's what the under bar appears to be.  And, pvc won't quite cut it huh?  I was planning on going to a home depot and carefully scoping out the "schedule 40" tubes to see how REALLY strong they'd be.  And, I aint no light weight!  I definitely need something that will support my 220lbs with gear!

Thanks for the input though and, yeah, I should search for krustyledge or something.
Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: Garbonzo on April 15, 2007, 04:49:38 pm
Rather than home depot tubing, get some real aircraft grade stuff., or both carry assorted aluminum and steel tubing.  Duece suggests the aluminum 1.125" dia with a 58 mil thickness.  Joiners can then be made from 1" OD tubing.  The copper tubing was in reference to using copper elbows in the corners.

My efforts dried up after getting the industrial sewing machine.  I need the next windfall to happen to come up with the dough to get some machined corners made up.  Presently the wife says buying a house takes priority of toys...
Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: zippyslug on April 16, 2007, 09:10:57 am
House nothing.... you guys could just live in the ledge! ;)
Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: caribouman on April 16, 2007, 02:59:15 pm
Don't bother with the plastics.  To get the strength you need, the diameters are so big it's disgusting.  (Figure bundling 8, 2.5 inch dia. tubes together, by three and a half feet long.  Now add the bed and a rainfly...)  I made my first ledge from PVC.  The bulk alone was mind-numbing, and the corners shattered with a little whacking.  Stick with metals.  Or bamboo...
Title: Re: Krustyledge fly
Post by: mungeclimber on April 19, 2007, 12:35:32 am
talk to tmoses about maybe purchasing some customs built blocks of milled aluminum
Title: Re: Krustyledge (over-all construction)
Post by: zippyslug on April 19, 2007, 09:44:00 am
Thanks for all the input on "real" ledges, all!  I'd agree that if I was a serious big waller I'd go this route.  Or, realistically, I'd just go buy a nice new ledge since I'm not destitute.  Only did this because I love to tinker and build.

For those at least interested in this ledge, for the education/fun/experiment alone, I'd say go for it and construct away!  Krusty did an admirable job on this design and it holds just fine.  Clearly the flaw with this is not the strength but the durability of materials over time.  So, that being said, would I take it up some remote big wall with impending storms?  Hell no!  But for a short climb in good weather, I think it's acceptable.  The thing that keeps coming to mind is what, I believe, Pete says about "not so much a big wall climber, more a big wall camper".  So... do a pitch, set the ledge, lie perfectly still until the next morning, get the hell off, rap down.  There, wasn't that fun! ;)

For the ledge I'm making, I have the first round done.  Frame made COMPLETELEY out of pvc (including cross bar), bed made entirely out of ballistics (simply because I already had the material and I wanted the extra strength), suspension made out of tie downs (for the ancra buckles).  Again, I don't plan on dragging this thing up el cap, but you know what.... I'm pretty sure it would suffice.  It's a little bit creaky but I'm actually quite surprised by how stable it is.  I've loaded it with over 400 lbs and it's held without any signs of failure.  So I'm comfortable with the knowledge that it will hold a single climber.

The only real alteration I made from the plans available off the interweb is that mine is a bit wider (closer to a double in actuality).  I've also created a cinch strap setup on one of the ends to allow for bed tension adjustments.  This is as one would find on a manufactured ledge from TNF, Fish, etc.  I think this is crucial to setup, teardown, and adjustments.

Few observations:
- this thing can be made very cheap.  I have about $60 into it total.  Skimping even more and a thrifty person could probably make it for half this.  However it must be noted that I didn't purchase any of the bed material so your mileage may vary.
- not sure if it's due to my choice of ballistics, but it's much more stable than I thought it would be.
- don't use plastic quick release buckles for anything with a load... they will blow out!
- if you use the plans on the web (, be prepared to wing it a fair bit.
- I wouldn't use this ledge for anything other than light duty.  In all honesty I haven't had this thing off the ground more than a couple feet.... haven't quite built up the nerve to take it higher.  The logical side of me says that it will be fine however. 
- folded up and ready to haul this thing is going to be BULKY, but not TOOOOO unreasonably heavy (20 lbs?).

Still have a punch list of stuff that I want do to it such as running bungee and tethering all the pieces together, slightly sanding the tub fittings so they go together easier (but not loose!), making a single clip in point, figuring out the collapsible haul mode, and maybe replacing all the suspension with climbing spec web instead of cheesy tie down web (only used for now to see how the ledge would fly).

At some point I'll post a couple pics of my customizations and to demonstrate some of the confusing parts of the ledge..

Fun project over all.
Title: Re: Krustyledge
Post by: zippyslug on May 01, 2007, 11:01:09 am
Finally getting around to the pics of my ledge.  Sorry for the subpar pics... ended up just grabbing my camera phone for these. :(

Here it is in all it's glory.  Several customizations can be seen: obviously much larger bed, quick links on the corners, all supports have 2-loop daisies, used cam buckels used on all supports about a foot away from the clip in point, etc.

The tricky corners.  I found that using a doubled over sewn length of 1" webbing worked best since it allows a cinching effect when you weight the ledge.  If you don't do something to keep the connection point in place it tends to slip off of the corner one way or another.  This then stressed the bed material upsets the ledge's balance a little.  It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.  I really didn't want to drill holes and run eye bolts through the corners since I figured this would lower the over-all strength of the corner.

The T-sections were slung with 2 loops.  I figured 2 slings were better than one (one on either side of the T) in case if one half had a complete failure the other half would still be intact.

The infamous strut brace.  Replacing with copper would definitely inspire more confidence.

One of several customizations.  I made one end like a "real" ledge with cinch buckles.  Once all the tubing is assembled you just cince the bed tight and it pulls the opposite end tight.  This was a nice addition.

Next up is possibly strengthening a few points, making a fly, haul bag, and getting the setup dialed in while hanging... practiced last night and it took me over 20 mins of clusterage!