Author Topic: Gri gri on the big falls?  (Read 3169 times)

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Offline mungeclimber

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Gri gri on the big falls?
« on: February 10, 2011, 05:58:47 pm »
So are you runnin a gri gri on the big long pitches?  I.e. so you can sleep while yer buddy chokes his on skeer vomit?


I know the taco had a thread somewhere about this, but the forces involved in a big ass fall (BAF) if there is no load limiter on the last good piece, could be enough for the 'chop' at 80' 120' eh?


passing thought as I was reading a read was that gri gris seem great for moderate aid, but maybe not so much for heinous aid.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 07:19:41 pm »
I think in general I'd rather have a little harsher fall than risk my partner nodding off.  There is just too much to do on a big wall not to need take hands off the rope now and then.

I've never had to catch a monster fall, but have done a FF>1 solo fall onto my gri-gri (i.e. not even friction through biners to help) and it was no biggy (well, I did bail...).

Offline Mr.

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 08:18:46 pm »
took a big whipper on one short fixing. rusty heads ya know.

pretty cool seeing the belay rush by and having enough time to think, wow i was just there!

super sketch stuff you just want a second lead line, double rope technique. its bad when you whip and your rope doesnt have any stretch left (from tearing out multiple pro). thats when sh-it goes really wrong.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2011, 11:32:33 pm »
man, it's always those heads.

why do we always want to try climbing on funk heads instead of replacing them?  I do it. But it's so silly, especially on those bad ones. what do you guys use for pulling mank copper and aluminum? butter knife? rounded chisel?

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 11:36:58 pm »
I have never whipped on my Gri Gri, yet I am prepared for it.

I have seen guys more than a few times, just tie into the Gri lilke you would for belaying.  Aluminum locker, gri, rope.

Any fall, could snap the carabiner, and or break the gri gri.  Crossloading happens, those who use this system can attest.

I use a 40kn steel carabiner, then rig a peice of rubber innertube around the gri gri.  It does no float on the biner.

Depending on the pitch, I may clip into the leg/swami, or just the belay loop.

For those who shortfix most of the time, this adds about 5 seconds to the tie in.

You will never break the biner, and the gri gri won't snap like a chicken bone after the big one.


There is allways the Kong GIGI!!!

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 01:43:14 pm »
If I am actually soloing, not just shortfixing.  I like to tie a few backup knots.  If the grigri breaks, that will save you.  If I am just short fixing, I will trust the grigri as there is minimal rope between my anchor and I.


I have fallen on it a time or two, worked great.  Watched partners fall on it, worked fine.  Heard about people falling on it, worked fine for them.  I have never actually heard about someone crossloading and breaking the biner in a fall, have you?  It could happen, sure, but you are (or should be) being mindful of the situation and keeping things oriented appropriately.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 02:00:38 pm »
Didn't the accident on Eagles Way years ago result in a broken biner/girgri attachment point. I don't know the specifics but I've seen Pete post it up on supertopo.

The Silent partner works so well that I haven't used a girgri for solo leading in probably ten years. 

Offline Mike.

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 05:54:28 pm »
For push style there is no discussion. Not much discussion IMO in any case.

Not fully understanding how a load limiter is much different than the dynamic of the rope when it comes to your rope getting or not getting cut by a Gri. I guess it would help. Maybe we should set up huge rope drag to keep all that dangerous whipper force off the belayer's Gri : D
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Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 06:36:08 pm »
Mike, I don't think the issue is the rope getting cut by the gri gri, but it catching in a twisted orientation and breaking the eye or the biner.  The rope cutting seems pretty hypothetical.

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 11:29:00 pm »
Yeah, not the rope cutting, but breaking the biner or the grigri on a crossloaded fall.

My only point is that a steel biner, and a piece of rubber, eliminate the need for you to have to worry about your self belay systems orientation.

That dude on EWay spelled it out for everyone, broke his biner in half running the same system.  At first they thought the gri gri "Cut" through the biner.

That is enough for me.  

Then again, what are the chances?



Offline Mike.

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 11:40:44 pm »
OK, we're still talking about this old issue...gotcha, thanks.

I don't worry about it soloing, don't use a Gri for anything self-belayed but short fixing. And in that case, I don't worry about it : )

Have fallen on a Gri, but ultimately love the backup knot. I've whipped all over my Solo Aid, that thing is my friend--gotta love a tool made for the job.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 11:44:51 pm by Mike. »
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2011, 04:37:47 pm »
I use a quicklink instead of a biner when using the gri-gri solo.  No real chance of cross loading that way, but kind of a hassle.

Offline YetAnotherDave

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2011, 08:09:23 pm »
Has anyone tried BD's new belay-specific locking  biner?  Looks like it might help with keeping a gri-gri oriented when soloing.   

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/carabiners/gridlock-screwgate-carabiner

Offline mhudon

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2011, 09:10:49 pm »
When you guys are soloing with a Gri-gri, do you clip your biner into your leg loop and harness loop or do you just use the Belay loop?

Offline YetAnotherDave

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2011, 11:55:35 pm »
I just use the belay loop, both with a gri-gri short-fixing or a silent partner when soloing.  IIRC the SP instructions say to use the waist and leg loops but that feels clumsy to me. 

Offline Mike.

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2011, 10:20:45 am »
Love the ideas for minimizing biner cross-loading by the Gri.

I've used a BD Positron thinking its small, directional shape would aid in maintaining orientation. It "worked" once.

I'd most like some sort of rubber device a la Petzl String
http://www.petzl.com/us/outdoor/verticality/carabiners/carabiner-accessories-0/string
that has a quickly-releasable facet. Seems like one could whip up something with minimal investment in materials and time.


Mark, the Gri seems like it needs a little extra play in a soloing app, so although I normally bypass belay loops when possible, I don't for that. A har with two belay loops is nice there.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2011, 11:32:02 am »
Last spring on GR/TR I used a nice, large BD Auto Locker clipped to both my leg loop and harness loop. I was figuring that if I fell (since I'm short) the gri-gri could flip up and whack me in the face.

Given that the biner was clipped in at three different places (leg loops, harness and gri-gri) there is a theoretical chance for cross loading. I wasn't too worried about it since I don't feel there is a realistic chance that the leg loops and harness loop will not be squeezed together in at the first instant of load applied. I was a bit worried about the Gri-gri pinching on the biner though. All in all, I was tied it to the rope with back up knots all the time.

I recently bought one of those Omni http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/special-locking-carabiners/omni biners that are designed to accept tri-loading. The only problem is that is a bit small and pulls my harness and leg loops tighter than I like.

I'm thinking that on my next solo, (I'm not dead yet) I might go with a Silent Partner. Given that they suggest using two lockers, biner breakage would pretty much not be an issue.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2011, 12:10:19 pm »
Get yourself a silent partner. You're love it for those free pitches and it works great aiding as well.

For free pitches I carry the rope in a small pack. For aid I just use one loop and when the loop runs out I pull up another 30 or so feet and carry on. The harness attachment removes any worry of cross loading or breakage. The grigri isn't designed for soloing, the silent partner is.

People bitch about the cost but is a couple hundred bucks really that much these days for a piece of quality equipment.

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Gri gri on the big falls?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2011, 03:42:31 pm »
That BD Belay biner is pretty bad ass.  I used one a few months back before they came out with a friend who is a BD Athlete.  He has ...a lot... of wall experience under his belt and seemed pretty satisfied with it, as well.  Yeah, in a way its a pain in the butt, however, I like the way it can't crossload the grigri, I don't mind the 1/2 second more it takes.  Like anything I think you will get the trick of it down.

Actually, I am going to go buy one this week...