Author Topic: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?  (Read 2712 times)

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Offline mungeclimber

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Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« on: November 09, 2010, 11:27:23 am »
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using mostly cam hooks to reduce the chance of expanding.

atomizer posted some beta.  not having hooked on expando but once or twice for short distance, this makes some sense. but what would a long section of expando look like with cam hooks?  or would you have such a thing?


Offline kristoffer

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 03:20:55 pm »
it would be a good method.. but they make spooky noises.
"I am plagued by a mindless nonchalance and petrified zen"

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 08:41:28 pm »
skating around me thinks. skeered!  as it moved it would be changing the contact points at least some.

practical experience anyone?

Offline Slakkey

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 08:14:40 am »
Well I read that bit of beta to on ST as it relates to the South Seas PO more precisely Pitch 5. Having done the route several years ago I found it interesting to say the least. I do recall having to put a little more into it than what these guys did for sure. As it stated the leader was fearless. Well he truly is more fearless than I If it is the same guys that did the route that I am thinking of they did do those pitches rather quickly if I recall. So props t them but I would have been a little more cautious. BTW if you have not done the SSPO it truly is a worthy route. still one of my favs

Offline mhudon

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 09:12:54 am »
A while ago I read a TR about someone who soloed SS as his first El Cap route. He mentioned cam hooks in the 5th pitch and didn't think it was too bad.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 10:01:47 am »
i hear a call for SSPO pics!

anyone?  buhler...

Offline Slakkey

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2010, 10:13:39 am »
Mark, its been over 10 years since i have done the route and to be honest I not so sure that pitch 5 was all that bad either. I think we were a little more spooked by some of the beta at the time. We have also seen that the ST beta can be a little on the heavy handed side as well. The guys that did the route this last Oct. were very efficient. They did a very nice job on the route so alot also depends on ones confidence and ability.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2010, 11:08:43 am »
Yeah. the raged up it, it was cool to watch.

That route is on my list for next fall and I expect to be scared shitless!

Offline mawk

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2010, 12:23:02 pm »
Pete (PTPP) and I climbed SS in 2008 (spring).  Pete led P5, took a fall.  I can't remember if he used cam hooks on lead but he told me to have them handy for cleaning.  So when I got up there I got to a spot where I couldn't reach the next piece so I got on a cam hook, problem solved.  As I was weighting the next piece it pulled and I swung back onto the cam hook which actually held my mini-fall.  I was impressed!  The hook did get bent out some but it did it's job quite well.  I've come to believe these things are a useful, trusty tool even on expando terrain.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2010, 06:07:06 pm »

Offline Chad

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2010, 06:36:28 pm »
"I pounded in a lost arrow to try and open up the crack as much as I could."

Offline kristoffer

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 11:28:09 am »
Not that im an expert on the subject matter, but there are actually a lot of really good methods for climbing thin expando and loose systems. 
-Cam hooks as mentioned above. Some times a light tap of the hammer can really assist in getting them in thin system with a lot of flex, but be sure to not overdrive or your going to feel like a dumb ass when you fix a cam hook.
- ibis hooks placed inside of the system (like a beak). these things are wonderful! unfortunately I don?t believe they are made in the small size any more.. I think Pika is only making the large size for a special forces ladder system.
-thin angle pitons filed down along the length so you pretty much end up with a lost arrow that has a concaved blade, they will flex in the crack and adjust to the expansion. I believe a brand by the name of Lucky makes knife blades with a bend like this (they were designed for stacking)
-I have a handful of custom beak type pitons I made with blades concaved like mentioned above, and the stems bent to add a camming action as well, they are sick but I have not got the spring tempering/heat treatment perfected.
-reach and spacing out the placements is the absolute best thing you can do.

There are a lot of other methods and tricks but those mentioned above are MY favorite tactics.

Any of you guys ever run into sandstone expando?  haha that stuff is gnarly!
"I am plagued by a mindless nonchalance and petrified zen"

Offline T Moses

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Re: Cam hooks on expando to reduce expando?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 10:22:34 pm »
Keep in mind that different cam hooks apply different amounts of prying force to the crack.  Multipy the width of the tip by the distance to the webbing hole.  The fragile flake/extra large applies the least amount of outward force on the rock.  The narrow is the most followed by the micro and the wide.  The fragile flake is made of 7075-T6 alumnim.  The aluminum has a small amount of "bite".  It deforms slightly increasing the friction agianst the rock.  It is a bit of a speciality piece and not everyone wants to carry them.  My next choice would be the wide if it fits. 

Expando is some heads up stuff! 

Be carefull about leaving cam hooks "fixed".  Nanook sent me a wide that had been "straightened" by an expando crack closing during cleaning.