Author Topic: Joining a static and dynamic rope  (Read 1735 times)

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Offline csproul

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Joining a static and dynamic rope
« on: May 31, 2011, 08:22:21 am »
Did my first real aid climb this weekend, Glass Menagerie at Looking Glass in NC. It was awesome to learn some new skills, get physically worked, and make it up the climb. I had one question come up during the climb that I never got answered. We fixed the first 4 pitches and rapped back to the ground, and then came back the next day to fire the rest. Neither my partner or myself had ever joined a static to a dynamic rope before, and we tied the static line and the lead line together to reach the ground. Do most people join a static and dynamic rope using the same knot that they'd use to join two dynamic ropes? Having one rope so stiff, it seemed like it was harder to get the two joined with a well dressed knot. In the end, we used a double fisherman just like I would have with two dynamic ropes and it worked fine.

Offline YetAnotherDave

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 02:10:13 pm »
A good trick for joining ropes (static/dynamic/whatever) to fix is to use whatever joining knot you're most comfortable with (figure 8 or double fisherman's most likely) and then tie an alpine butterfly so that the joining knot is in the butterfly's loop.  That gives you something convenient to clip into when passing the knot, and isolates the uber-secure knot with one that's easy to untie. 

Not my idea - this is another one of those little gems you're rewarded with if you manage to wade through PTPP's various book-length posts on RC.com  :)

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 11:05:08 pm »
I also use the butterfly-to-isolate-whatever-knot-you-want setup. works great. 

Haven't had any issues combining my static to my dynamic in the past, with or without the butterfly. Double fishermans is what I normally use for rapping. Can't say anything about an overhand/edk
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline lambone

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 02:13:15 pm »
I have fixed and hauled with the haul tied to the lead line with a Double Fishermans and haven't had any trouble untying them. The Butterfly is one of those knots I have a hard time remembering how to tie even though I know it's easy...

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 04:53:30 pm »
"The Butterfly is one of those knots I have a hard time remembering how to tie even though I know it's easy..."

It's just like having your way with a young girl.

First you twist her head all around (full 360 twist of a bite)

Then you bend her over (fold the top loop over)

Then you poke her through the hole (pass the tip of the loop through the hole you created)

Then you put her clothes back on and send her home (dress the knot)


Once my buddy told me that way I've NEVER been able to forget it, even when I tried...

For single rope raps with knot passing, I like the double fisherman's isolated with an alpine butterfly, it really is a nice way to have a clip-in for a safety tether, and is much easier to untie than just about anything else.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 05:06:56 pm by Garbonzo »

Offline lambone

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 08:52:36 am »
Lol, nice

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2011, 01:33:01 pm »
I do the butterfly with the following steps (taught to me by the guy that built my camp's ropes course)

1. Start by placing your hand palms up
2. Wrap three loops around your palm (should go from the base of your palm towards your finger)
3. Take the loop closest to your wrist and carry it over the other two loops towards your fingers until you have three loops again in your palm.
4. Then take the new loop that is closest to to your wrist and carry it over the two loops and then wrap it under your fingers so that it goes through the loops under your fingers.
5. Pull and tighten and you'll have your butterfly.

To isolate a section of rope or the tied together ropes this way, make sure that the section you want to isolate is in the center of the center loop of your palm before starting.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Joining a static and dynamic rope
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2011, 03:52:30 pm »
I think the alpine butterfly incorporates another bend/loop.
 
Great knott for rigging belays as well, particularly if it is vertically oriented.

I use a figure 8 follow through with finish knots on both sides when joinging static/Dyn.

Good info here as usual