Author Topic: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos  (Read 6206 times)

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Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 07:13:37 pm »
And a pleasure it is. Nicely done, Mark!

Offline Mike.

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 08:05:47 pm »
"It's a tough life if you're a wall rat"

LOL

Bravo, Mark.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 10:06:18 pm »
Thanks, a written TR will be coming in the next month or two.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 12:24:52 am »


Tech Tip Photos = bonus style points

Offline Chad

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2011, 07:47:45 am »
Awesome photos. A3R to rubble? That sounds sketchy. Is that goop on your cam hook to make it quieter?

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2011, 09:42:44 am »
Thanks!

The goop is stuff I use to mark my gear. It's call The Mark and is made by a company from Boulder. A kit cost $15 plus shipping. I marked all my biners, cams and aid gear. One thing I'll mention is to make sure to clean your gear before applying the stuff. Otherwise, it'll just fall off after a while.

Here's a link:

http://www.boulderbaseddesigns.com/products_mark.asp

Offline lambone

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2011, 12:10:20 pm »
Hey Mark, can you explain what you got going on in this photo?

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2011, 12:43:12 pm »
You all know how you're never really "tied in" to the rope on a solo? The green rope is my lead rope and I've arrived at the anchor with 60 or 70 feet of lead rope left so I have that all bagged and tucked away in its rope bag and safetied with the Slippery Knot off to the right.

I have the lead rope equalizing the left and middle bolts since I'm going to be using that part of the anchor when I clean the pitch. The black rope is my haul line that I'm rappelling and will be hanging the bags on shortly. With my 2:1 hauling system it's easy for me to get a tight rope into the system.

All in all, I have two ropes that I'm going to be hanging off of, both equalizing two 3/8" bolts with beefo, bomber hangers.

When I finish cleaning I'll take apart the lead rope part of then anchor (I'll personally be clipped in with two Metolius PAS slings with lockers at their ends), finish stuffing it into its rope bag and arrange it so that its ready to go when I start leading again. Once the hauling is done, I'll stuff the hauling into its rope bag and make sure that's all ready to go and attached to the tag bag.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 06:59:31 pm by mhudon »

Offline lambone

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 12:48:43 pm »
so when using the 2:1, you don't need to clip the pully into the haul system before heading back down to cut the bags loose?

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 12:55:44 pm »
Correct. You start off having to haul an inch and then two and then four and then 8 and the you move up the Mini-trax and you're rolling.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 01:05:09 pm by mhudon »

Offline johnmac

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2011, 12:00:47 pm »
Many thanks for posting up the link.

I was in the garage last night till midnight (I get up at 4.45am for work) reworking my systems and incorporating some of your ideas into it.  Your willingness to share ideas and tips along the way is really really appreciated. I think that often we end up thinking our systems are the best and it isn't until you see what some other people are doing you realize you have the blinkers on.

I particularly like the way you set up your lead rope. Such a simple and safe system. Usually I use  sling to equalize everything, but that creates another link in the system and drops the height down.

You're an imspiration Mark, from day one when I read about you and Max in mountain magazine all those years ago and it just keeps on going...

This is what sets this site apart. It may be a small campfire but it glows really bright.

Thank you.

Offline scotto

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2011, 12:14:36 pm »
Awesome pictures. Can't wait for the written report.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 12:26:57 pm »
Thanks,

Over the years I've found that I'm a pretty good teacher, I enjoy doing it.

John and I developed the idea of equalizing the anchor with butterfly knots to it's final form on the Shield last fall. We reasoned that if you could do the same thing with the rope, the rope you already had, you wouldn't need an extra piece of gear (the cordalette) and would eliminate the problem of everything getting so low on the anchor. Once you sit around with it and play with it, you'll see how easy it is to move the knot up and down the rope and also increase or decrease the size of the loop without untying the knot, you'll fall in love with it.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 07:01:24 pm by mhudon »

Offline johnmac

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 01:53:33 pm »
Mark,

I'm sure you have been asked this before and you're answered it, but I can't find it. What are makes and models of your pulleys?

Thanks

john


Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2011, 04:28:57 pm »
SMC. I get them from RescueDirect http://www.rescuedirect.com/

I have the Minis for the bottom pulley but a 2" sheave rescue pulley for the top one in case I ever decide to go 1 to 1.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2011, 09:30:46 pm »
Thanks.

Offline Chad

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2011, 10:56:14 am »
Nice cover shot, Mark!

http://www.planetmountain.com/

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2011, 11:45:28 am »
Wow! Neat! I think that guy is going to do an article about me, he's going to reprint a short interview that was done in Climbing a few years ago.

Offline Tito

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 07:42:56 am »
Howdy,
I was just trying to put together a 2:1 system and there is one thing I can't figure out.  How are you attaching the  jug pull down handle to the basic ascender?  I see the biners in photos but the basic ascender cam and thumb latch is in the way.  It seems that I'm missing something.
Many thanks,

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2011, 03:24:56 pm »
Hmmm.. post a photo, it sounds like you're all messed up.

If you're referencing this photo, I'm using the blue ascender merely as way to grab the rope. It does nothing functional in the 2:1 system.

See the thin black cord going right, diagonally out of the photo? I have that attached to my belay loop via a biner and clove hitch. The weight of my body is what pulls up the red pulley which pulls up the bags.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 03:33:09 pm by mhudon »

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2011, 02:56:01 pm »
Dumb Question Mark:

In your pic you have the mini-trax hanging way below your top pulley.  Wouldn't you want to minimize that distance so you could have much less skinny cord in the system (i.e. reduce stretch losses in 2:1 cord)?

Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2011, 06:29:18 pm »
Not a dumb question at all!

The skinny black cord is Spectra and does not stretch, BUT, when working on my systems before soloing Grape Race/Tribal Rite last year, I had a different setup that incorporated a quickdraw but abandoned it when I saw how much the thing stretched.

What was happening was this:

See how I have the haul line, the black line. tied to the anchor with a butterfly and an eight knot up and right of the hauling system? I rapped that line to get down to the previous anchor and then lowered out the bags onto that anchor system. The bags were hanging from those knots when I set up the 2:1 and I needed to get the Mini-Trax onto the rope below them. I used the quickdraw to do that. I hauled a bit, to get some slack in the haul line and then at some point removed the quickdraw and moved the Mini-Trax up to the biner spanning the upper pulley. I probably did that right after I took the photo.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 10:43:02 pm by mhudon »

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2011, 09:40:30 pm »
Wow!

Great pic showing the rig.

2 questions Mark:

-When starting out (heavy loads >200lbs) Do you always haul off of 1 bolt?  Or build an equalized sub anchor? Big loads X mechanical advantage = HEAVY forces. 

-On your 2:1 black cord, do you keep a certain length, to adjust the hauling length at the belays with a clove hitch or something similiar?

I have thought to keep a bit more just in case there is a fat sloping ledge or something you can really "Run" down, rather than multiple movements to move the bag up before resetting the system.

Thanks for all of the info!


Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2011, 10:38:06 pm »
Mucci,

On ZM I could almost haul 1:1 but didn't want to work that hard. 2:1 was very, very easy. Does adding a mechanical advantage hauling system increase the force on a bolt? Is 200 pounds compounded somehow merely because of the hauling system? My opinion would be no, it does not, 200 pounds is 200 pounds on the anchor not matter how you haul it (I would really like to hear what an engineer has to say about this though).

Although...

Someone just sent me a photo of a similar hauling system but where he has a quickdraw (you could use a Screamer) attaching, loosely, the Mini-Trax over to another bolt. The full weight is not taken by both bolts, the second bolt is only a back up. All in all, I don't worry about hauling off of a single 2.5" x 3/8" bolt with a modern hanger on it.

My 2:1 Spectra cord, the Zed Cord, is quite long and I use a clove hitch to tie into it at a convenient spot for that particular hauling situation.

Here's an important tip. Use a old biner with a ROUND cross section rather than a newer biner with an I beam or T cross section. The Zed Cord will really cinch up tight on the non round biner and will be a bitch to loosen. On a round biner, it's much, much easier.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 11:19:38 am by mhudon »

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2011, 02:07:17 pm »
I think I just garnered some info that will make the whole process much easier!

As to the mechanical advantage system increasing the forces on an anchor....

It most certainly does.  In a 2:1 I think the forces are multiplied by a factor of 3 depending on the set up.

If you haul 1:1, the forces on the anchore are doubled.

With loads like what Pete hauls, I bet the forces are in the thousands on the anchor.

Food for thought.

thanks for the explanations and photos, really cool stuff.

Offline offset

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2011, 03:20:09 pm »
NO ...mechanical advantage does NOT increase the load on the anchor.. (unless the bags get stuck and you keep pulling)

yes, a 1:1 doubles the load on an anchor...    sort of.  but that is only because the anchor is holding you AND the bag up.  i can draw a picture if i have time...  but i don't right now.   i'm busy engineering.


Offline mhudon

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2011, 05:38:49 pm »
So there I am getting ready to haul a 200 pound bag. It's hanging on one side of my 2:1 setup and I'm on the other. I'm 125 pounds so let's just call the total weight on the anchor, 200+125 = 325 pounds. Let's not count drag of the bags on the rock, let's say they are hanging free.

Right then, without moving a muscle or an inch, the bolt is holding 325 pounds.

Mucci, you're saying that the instant I make an effort to pull down on my 2:1 set up, the weight on that bolt triples to 675 pounds?

I can see tremendous forces generated if the bag gets stuck under a roof and I keep pumping, but hanging there in space, I can't see it.
And
I can see forces increasing depending on friction between the bag and the rock but I still can't see three times as much weight.

Even still, at three times as much, 625 pounds in this example, won't a modern 2.5" x 3/8" bolt with a modern hanger hold far, far more than that much weight?

Offline offset

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2011, 05:48:42 pm »
3 x 325 = 975...  but that's not the point...

yes, it will be more than 325 from dyanamics and stuff...  maybe even tripple...BUT that's not from pulley system.  think of all the pulleys in a black box with one string hanging from the top and two coming out the bottom.  the one string out the top is going to your bolt and the two out the bottom are one to you and one to your piggy.    it doesn't matter what sorts of mech advantage system you have inside that box...keep on adding pulleys till you run out..   it won't change the load going up to the bolt. 

think the opposite...when you are far end hauling... while it feels less to you (one of the two strings coming out of the box)  - the weight of the pig doesn't actually change. 

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Zenyatta Mondatta, Solo, June 2011 Photos
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2011, 05:52:42 pm »
Two 200lb guys using a 3:1 system are generating 1,200 pounds of force IN the system.  A multiple of 3, that much I know is true.

I think I am confusing forces in the system with actual anchor forces generated in a pulley system.

There is A LOT of info (including SAR scenarios) where friction alone causes increased forces on an anchor.

Arborists maintain the thought that there is an increase in anchor forces once friction comes into play, just the same as hauling on a slab.

Either way Mark, I just found it odd that you don't have a back up to your system.  

Excited to hear from offset, and get the scoop.

Cheers!