Author Topic: SS/PO anchors  (Read 1707 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mhudon

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
SS/PO anchors
« on: August 13, 2011, 02:50:52 pm »
I'm going up on it this fall with Max and am willing to haul a bolt kit if any anchor needs fixing. Does anyone have any current information about the quality of the anchors up there?

skully

  • Guest
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 04:46:22 pm »
The only one that I can readily think of that truly sucked was the very last PO anchor before the summit.
Grievous. Of course, it's been a while. That was  Summer of '98. There were a few shaky dowels in The Illusion Chain, too.
Cheers.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 10:40:29 pm by skully »

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 10:10:55 am »
10-year-old remembrance of the belay anchors: Nothing of concern at all. The last "Home Depot" station can be backed up nicely with gear at your feet. Some horrible-looking lead bolts still on the PO at that time. I'd bring a quarter-inch kit on the route and leave the fattie HW on the ground.

Stoked for ya, Mark! Sweet alcove...
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline mhudon

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2011, 11:11:26 am »
Thanks, I think I'll take along a couple fatties but go with mostly quarter inchers and rivets. I'm planning on doing my usual clean up so I just get my kicks that way.

I'm way psyched (I'm sort of embarrassed to say that I'm almost all packed and ready to go). We're planning on fixing three and then humping, and hauling the next day and sleeping right there.

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 11:58:44 am »
Gotcha, right on for the psyche. You guys will cruise it.

Quarter inchers and rivets: the same thing? Or are you rocking machine head rivs?

Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline mhudon

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 01:10:25 pm »
No, not the same. A quarter inch buttonhead split pin bolt and then a machine head rivet, like what is on ZM. I'm thinking that I should replace rivets with rivets and not bolts. My feeling is that it really does change the character of the pitch to replace rivets with bolts. Stepping off a rivet onto a crappy piece certainly feels different than stepping off a bolt onto the same piece.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116577194626817618731/ZenyattaMondattaSoloJune2011#5622308891474538706

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 03:14:03 pm »
"I'm thinking that I should replace rivets with rivets and not bolts."

Roger--I'm on board with that. I think we're dealing with terminology here.

Probably the majority of rivets on EC are actually the split-shaft Drive bolts you described. This is the preferred HW (based on some discussion in past years on ST) for not diminishing the experience when re-bolting Zamac, Rawl (Powers) Drive and machine head bolt "rivets," as well as promoting future replace-ability. Machine head bolts are themselves super bomber, but there's no way to know how deep they are or the integrity of the rock they're placed in. That's why they can fail under body weight or small falls sometimes as we saw on Aurora.

Mark, I know you're in it for the right reasons and will keep the character in mind as you replace, if you do. Bravo there. I know you won't be placing those massive via feratta "rivets" that won't accept normal keyhole hangers, or bolts with hangers where some discreet rivets used to be, or bolts where it gets a little hard. We have Erik Sloan to do that.

Cheers...
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline lambone

  • WebDJ
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 03:58:41 pm »
Mark, that rivet in your picture is barely in the rock, prolly less then 1/4 inch.

The ladders up on the PO are all bad, and some horrible.

Offline *Mucci*

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 11:42:42 pm »
I am sure you will put forth a good replacement effort if needed Mark.

In regards to machine head rivets.  You can place 5/16 in a 1/4 HSS drilled hole, but won't get depth.  (Definately not a sds 1/4) or you will blow the hole out.

You have to grind the threads down, enough to get the rivet started, then when you send it home the upper threads conform into bomberdom.

However, the more holes you drill with your HSS 1/4 bit, the deeper the rivet seats.
 
Mark, that rivet in your pic could be ANY size, there is no way of knowing.  I tend to use the 3/4"length when I reach for a machine head, and usually get around 1/2" embedded. Stainless steel is preferred both for it's malleability and longevity.

However, on replacement I agree with mike and like to see the splitshaft buttonhead go in.  Machine heads usually do not come out easy, or cleanly.  If the head is broken off, punch the stud in and patch, then drill a new hole for a proper rivet.

Also, I don't know what kind of drill you have, but if you drill a hole with a 1/4 SDS bit, and try and sink a splitshaft, you will dinnerplate the placement.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 11:47:04 pm by *Mucci* »

Offline mhudon

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 09:25:16 am »
Just to be totally clear, when we say 1/4" split pin button head bolt, we're all talking about this thing here, aren't we?

http://www.powers.com/product_03601.html
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 09:43:49 am by mhudon »

Offline lambone

  • WebDJ
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 12:37:40 pm »
Yeah, Minerals was telling me once that he thinks those are shit, since they have a tendency to sheer right where the split starts. He said if you use them its important to get it deep enough that the split part + extra is in the hole.

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 01:15:54 pm »
Powers Drive, that's it.

Interesting, lambone. Never heard that comment from BL. I'm pretty sure he does still think it to be the best rivet going. But he prefers to use two washers on them to aid replacement. I think one washer is a very good idea to better keep hangers on them. Don't know offhand what the ID/OD of the washers is, but I have a load of them here.

The photo is a 1 1/4" length. I would think that if wanting the split to be well inside the rock (and better facilitate two washers) that the 1 1/2" length would be preferred. The split is a consistent distance from the tip on both lengths.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 01:17:52 pm by Mike. »
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline lambone

  • WebDJ
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
    • View Profile
Re: SS/PO anchors
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 10:53:24 pm »
hm, mighta been someone else that said that then...