Author Topic: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points  (Read 2092 times)

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Offline beta

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(sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« on: March 03, 2012, 09:13:26 am »
Old Phart, new member, completely new to aid climbing, so here goes, be gentle.

I've been reading everything I can get my hands on, various forums etc, and have a question regarding what is tied in and where. Some advocate daisy and fifi tie in to the belay loop only, some say through swami and leg loops. Chris Mac says through swami and leg loops, the guy that wrote the big wall primer in March Climbing mag says belay loop, what do YOU do and why?

Just trying to sort out some conflicting information, and start off with the least cluster I can.

Thanks for the help.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:47:33 am by beta »
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Offline Beautiful_Corn

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 09:40:53 am »
I'm only slightly less of a noob than you but here's how I do it:

Daisies through tie-in points, but not for any particular reason.
Fifi on belay loop.  I've tried it through the tie-in points also but I prefer the few inches of extra length the belay loop gives me.  That's probably less efficient for reaching high but I'm still trying to get comfortable with the whole business.  I'll trade efficiency for less fear for now.

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Offline xtrmecat

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 02:47:27 pm »
  Daisies through tie in points for me, and for this reason. I use adjustables, and the clutter is minimal this way. The biggie is this has been the cause of a fatal accident. Research the death of one Todd Skinner. Adjustable daisies need no fifi so that is mute.

  Belay loops are just that, although I have used them occasionally for other things, such as when hauling, and things like backup knotts when solo, or jugging the line. My gri gets clipped in there also when it is my jug backup. I try to maintain that the belay loop is for hard attachments, and anything girthed to my harness is through the tie in points. I cannot think of any exceptions to this that would sway my thinking in any way, but that is just me.


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Offline caribouman

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 08:52:32 pm »
I had the same question when I started aiding again a few months ago.  I've found my new swami gets pulled up more into my rib cage unless I hitch my my daisies through both my leg loops and harness, I put one on each side of the belay loop / tie-in point. 

  I have never tied in to a belay loop, to me it's just on more link in the chain, one  more point of possible failure. 




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Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 10:11:57 am »
I tie my fifi on with supertape, to about the length of the belay loop. An old timer taught me to tie one of my daises through this loop, which extends the daisy a couple inches(critical if you're over 6', or tend to get a good cluster going down there).

If you do this trick you gotta wrap some cloth tape around the supertape just below the fifi, to keep it from falling down below your daisy and being hard to find(it's like you make a single bartack out of cloth tape, just to keep your fifi on top and easy to grab)

True that Petzl has documented the danger of girth hitching a spectra daisy to a spectra belay loop. Guess it reduces strength considerably and increases wear.

That said, because I run the supertape-attached daisy always, I run my other daisy on my belay loop and just check and rotate the girth hitch point from time to time. Haven't noticed any crazy wear.

Adjustable daisy means no fifi? What about docking/releasing the bag, moving around the belay on a portaledge? Fifi is your friend on the wall, for sure.

cheers
e

Offline Kjbds1

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 09:35:28 pm »
While I'm as much of a noob as anyone here, I bought the Metolius easy daisies, which removes a bit of clutter w/ the fifi catching on things, and girth hitch through leg / swami belt.

Offline beta

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 10:57:10 am »
Thanks for the replies.

BC, I read your thread on your first aid practice sessions, looks like you are getting it dialed in. I learned a lot reading the advice given to you by the membership here. Seem to be a good group of guys that know their stuff. That?s why I registered.

I think that Chris Mac on Supertopo prefers the fifi through the tie in points so that it is short and he can get really close to the piece, that said, he makes it look easy.  I already know, it?s not.

Xtrmecat, so far I?ve been doing it your way with the daisies through the tie in points, fifi too. Kinda crowded with the rope but I?m not using a wall harness yet (ouch). I like the idea of keeping the belay loop un-clustered for belay/rap duty and also a good place for the backup knot biner.

Todd Skinner?s accident was a belay loop failure right?

Lots of great info you guys. So much to learn and practice, but that?s part of the fun.
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Offline mungeclimber

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 11:31:57 am »
Quote
Adjustable daisy means no fifi? What about docking/releasing the bag, moving around the belay on a portaledge? Fifi is your friend on the wall, for sure.

to dock the bag, I've got an sewn in adjustable daisy on it. Couple that with a munter mule at the station, docking and undocking is mostly painless.


Offline Mike.

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Re: (sigh) ready for a stupid question? tie in points
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 03:25:37 pm »
^^^ Roger that.

When I'm soloing I run two Petzl William lockers in addition to the two resident "belay" loops. Aider daisies attach to the Williams. Stronger than a girth hitch, doesn't wear your harness and daisies as much, easier to inspect. Allows for a degree of freedom when you inevitably stack a rope on the wrong side or whatever you did that can be fixed quickly. I usually girth hitch daisies on swami and leg loops if on a partnered team.

Fifi is on a belay loop.

Not stupid questions, I think.
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