Author Topic: Stuck knot in the lead line?  (Read 1447 times)

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Offline Paul Brennan

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Stuck knot in the lead line?
« on: April 06, 2012, 06:23:31 pm »
So I've just encountered a new (to me) problem that I've never considered before. Being a wall soloing newbie I thought I'd ask for some advice from the seasoned vets. It might be silly, but the dumbest questions are the unasked ones!

I was up on a wee solo excursion, on a particularly long pitch. About 2/3 the way up, the weight of the lead line back to the anchor is enough to cause the rope to feed through the grigri. No problem, I just put a clove hitch on a bomber piece and carry on. 2 pieces above this, I rush a placement, it pops, and i fall back onto the piece with the clove hitch. The piece catches me, but the clove hitch tightened to such a degree that I now have a clove hitched biner firmly jammed on the rope. I felt sketched so I finished the pitch and bailed.

What would be the collective opinion on this issue? Should I not have used a clove hitch and used a knot thats easier to untie, like an alpine butterfly? Should i have tied the rope off at all? It would have been possible, if a bit of a pain to carry on. And if it was a more committing situation I would have had to. So I guess the question is what would you guys have done? And what could I have done better?

Cheers

skully

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 07:27:33 pm »
There's the clove's Achilles Heel. It can jam SO hard that it ain't Ever comin' loose. A butterfly might be better, or even a lighter limiter. Small short bungee? That would pop off the line if you fall. No extra knot.
Just ponderin' over here, Boss.
I actually haven't had much trouble with overfeed, but it's been awhile. Maybe selective memory?

Offline A5scott

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 07:50:21 pm »
if you are gonna tie knots you lose the dynamic quality of the rope.   but butterfly would be better, maybe add a screamer to the piece. or use heavy duty rubber bands prussik'd in, or longer cord prussiks,  long enough that they don't catch you in a fall.  I say this never having used these ideas yet  so experiment with some things and find what works best for you.
Scott

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 08:12:29 pm »
No knot -> long (no, longer) loop of 5mm cord through the piece and tied to an autoblock or klemheist on the lead line -> keep going.  

You use the autoblock because in the case that the knot reaches the carabiner, the force of the carabiner will actually loosen the knot allowing more of the rope to feed through. I took a fall on Wet Denim and saw the aftereffect of this and I believe that Hudon posted about one of his routes where he saw this happened as he was falling (myself, i'm too busy making strange yelling sounds to analyze the process of my system working like that)

Got this system from reading pptp's posts, full disclosure.

Says me. So I give it a 4 on an authority scale of 1-10.

- - - -

I like the screamer on the piece if you do tie off with a knot to the piece.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 08:14:14 pm by cobbledik »
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 08:22:48 pm »
Like the post above, rather than using a clove hitch (Personally I think this is a bad idea) use one of the following to hold the weight of the rope:

1. use a long prussik cord to hold the weight of the rope. I typically tire a klemheist.
2. Use thick rubberbands (these will break if you come off)
3. Use thin velcro straps (these will break if you come off also)

With the silent partner I rarely "rebelay", but when I do I normally use 1/4 to 1/2 inch wide rubberbands (that i carry in one of my pockets) most of the time.

Cheers

John

Offline mhudon

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 09:09:13 pm »
I wouldn't use knots, I don't like that idea at all.

I use 5mil Kelmhiest Knot and I have seen them hit the biner and loosen. The SP doesn't back feed, eh? That'll be cool.

Offline Paul Brennan

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 09:29:18 pm »
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas all. Yes, in retrospect tying a knot was a mistake, which I won't make again. A kleimheist or rubber band sound like much better ideas. The lack of back feeding on an SP sounds like a distinct advantage.

Will go through all of PTPP's online advice again, as it would appear I missed a few things.

Offline Mike.

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 08:31:34 am »
A device/method that doesn't auto feed will eliminate this problem altogether. Auto feed is great on easy ground, but when it gets real I don't want it at all. A main reason (as stated) being I want the full dynamic action of the rope when I'm on/above marginal gear. For the same reason I don't single biner pieces when I'm soloing. A long, straight rope will put less force on a piece when you fall.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline Beautiful_Corn

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Re: Stuck knot in the lead line?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 06:21:17 am »
I haven't climbed any pitches long enough for my grigri to start backfeeding yet but I've thought to myself that the elastic hair ties that my wife uses would be perfect.  They are about as thick as some skinny bungee cord and you can keep a few on your wrist like bracelets until you need them.  They're more durable than rubber bands and you can find them in grocery stores and drug stores.