Author Topic: Nose or Zod?  (Read 2600 times)

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Offline mungeclimber

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Nose or Zod?
« on: January 16, 2013, 04:11:48 pm »
Ok, so going to throw this out there with only the mere percolation of commitment happening at this point. But I think it would change my training and objectives for Spring if I chose one vs. the other.

Pros and Cons:
Nose -

History
Nice cracks
Punishes those that like to haul and climb slow
Need to free 5.10 cracks to make it go fast
Crowds and clusters


Zod-
Some history here too.
Aid (as a plus)
Easy hauling
Some crowds.
Familiar with top couple of pitches by sight
Fairly dry in a storm until top.


or fuk it, and do Grand Sent where there is no one and the approach is a bitch.

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 06:33:19 pm »
In my multiple bails on ZOD during winter, the bottom five-ish pitches are wet are get their fair share of runoff melt even when there's been no rain for a while if there's still snow on top. Comes hard in the morning, lets up midday, then comes back in the afternoon through part of the night. Was not fun. Depends on how spring you mean by spring.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 07:04:43 pm »
South Seas To Po(Seriously)....You can thank me later.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 09:56:59 pm »
South Seas To Po(Seriously)....You can thank me later.

Will look at the squiggles on the papers.

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 11:19:26 pm »
Forget the South Seas to PO suggestion. Not even on the same page. I've climb the Nose 15 times and the Zodiac more. I'll tell ya a funny story:

I thought everything you wrote about the Nose as far as difficulty was concerned before I climbed it and boy was I wrong. I climbed the Nose for the first time around 2000 for my 44th or 45th ascent of El Cap. At every belay I was like 'punch me in the face that I haven't done this route till now'. Everything you write about the difficulties on the Nose is true for the Salathe: it's longer, you are often changing crack systems that tend to be thinner or more challenging, and you have to free climb a bit.

The Nose after Sickle is like climbing three South Face's in a row, in the most spectacular setting, with a 15min approach,on the biggest rock in the Valley, with easy hauling and a stance or cute ledge at most belays,ect. In other words it is the most friendly, awesome bigwall on the planet. Nothing comes close(if you consider the approach).

Cobbledik just likes to bail. It has been well documented that the best way to approach the Zod when runoff is happening is to fix to 4 during the dry times, meaning get the first pitch in whenever because it is always dry, then blast to 4 hopefully only getting somewhat wet(I've done it through the full waterfall). After fixing to 4 you have to make it to 6 or 7 to bivy, which is pretty reasonable as those are easy pitches. Blows me away in this digital age how many people think that this beta is just optional and continue with they're plans to haul to the top of 2 when you can see it in full waterfall in the afternoon. Good to have a plan but also important to adjust to the conditions you find.

Zodiac is incredible. But it is like half of the Nose. The rock and the places it goes to are insane. Once you climb the Nose it will seem like a fun, shorter wall that happens to be on the same cliff.

In the end the most important factor is what you are really psyched for. No question you can climb it. Being in the best shape possible is what makes walls fun. It gives you the energy to eat at every belay, support your partner in crushing, take amazing pictures, deal with whatever challenges arise,ect. If you don't have a partner who you are training with it is important to be ready for whatever incredible opportunity comes your way.....cause when you hit the Valley the good times will definitely roll.

LIve it up!
erik
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 11:22:03 pm by nanook »

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 11:24:59 pm »
good stoke

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2013, 03:38:00 pm »
Saying I like to bail is like saying an ugly guy at the club likes getting shut down by the hot girls.

I would say that I appreciate what you can learn from a bail as much as what you can learn from an ascent. Besides, I probably have the highest pitch to summit ratio of anyone I know. Got to find your records where they lay.

- - -

I did the haul to pitch 4 method based upon Nanook's suggestion when I saw him in the bar my first time on ZOD. Easy peasy and I can't imagine why you'd choose to drag and lower the haul bag across the earlier pitches.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline lambone

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 03:17:34 pm »
Both are must do routes munge...

They are also very different. Ideally you'd do either in 2 bivis (maybe 3). But the Nose is almost twice as long, so you need to cover A LOT more ground per day. You wanna be up climbing at the crack of dawn and until late in the day. The Zod can be done in a more chill (i.e. Party Wall) pace.

Zodiac is generally a bit less crowded (although the Zod can be packed as well). The logistics of fixing on the Nose to Sickle with 3 ropes and dealling with multiple teams blasting up at once through the Stovelegs usually ends up being a clusterfuck.

Obv Zod is more aid intensive, and you are gunna be much more well off if you can do some free climbing on the Nose.

If it's your first El Cap route I'd suggest the Zodiac, get your systems more dialed without the stress of having to cover 10 pitches in a day and you will have more fun on the Nose.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 03:24:32 pm by lambone »

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 03:52:28 pm »
I got LF under the belt.

I've avoided Nose for a long time thinking it would be a cluster and I would not enjoy it.

Zod, I can get in the stirrups and get in my rhythm, but Nose would be good objective to get my free climbing in shape, which I need to do anyways.

hitting the gym regularly now, doing some weights, Pinnacles on the weekends in winter, but still not running regularly. Work blows a whole in my motivation at the end of the day.

Offline lambone

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 05:11:34 pm »
I climbed the Nose in a warm spell in November. it was 80+ degrees and we ran out of water up high. Not a soul on the route aside from an IAD party that passed us a 6am on the first day while we jugged up the fixed lines to Sickle. We aided about 90% of it and spent 3 nights with a portaledge (Dolt, IV, and VI). We just barely beat a storm to the top.

Was really fun, I'd suggest the off season.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:13:12 pm by lambone »

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 09:09:21 am »
You got it Cobble--I was just ribbin ya. The bails are good for us, for sure.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 10:47:20 am »
you aided 90% of the Nose and call it fun, Lambone? That sounds like hell on earth to me.

I would suggest to be good enough to ramble up 5.10c (at least). That way you could free climb 85% of probably the best, longest crack climb in the world.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 10:55:24 am by mhudon »

skully

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 04:05:52 pm »
ERic, up yours. You have no place advising anyone to do anything. So should we follow your shining example, MR. Giant retro bolt? Mr. Avoid-the-crux with a bolt ladder? Trail chopper?
What I'm saying, Rob, is climb something cool. Try to reach a little. Same old is same old, dig? No rut.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 04:14:47 pm »
For an 'off the coucher' like me, anything more than a day means a lot to me. I think I can do a lot, when it comes down to it, but that's not enough. I want to have a good experience. Finding something that I'm fired up for is the first part of it. Right now, those two are front of mind, but don't worry, the Guidebooks are stationed by the toilets for studying. :)

Offline lambone

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 09:35:30 pm »
you aided 90% of the Nose and call it fun, Lambone? That sounds like hell on earth to me.

welllllllll......you know. I am more of an aid climber. i did free the Stovelegs though...or most of it anyway!

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 08:56:49 pm »
you aided 90% of the Nose and call it fun, Lambone? That sounds like hell on earth to me.

I like aid more too. I'd aid-solo the entire nose if I didn't have to worry about the conga line behind me.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 01:14:24 am »
Quote
I like aid more too. I'd aid-solo the entire nose if I didn't have to worry about the conga line behind me.


me too.

Offline Didder

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2013, 10:01:39 am »
Just climb it! Zodiac lower pitches in full conditions this last Thanksgiving... we climbed through 4 storms over 5 days
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 10:07:35 am by Didder »

Offline mhudon

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 10:04:20 am »
There are tons of awesome positions to aid on the Nose but aiding that much A1 would be boring as hell.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2013, 12:18:28 am »
Nice pic Didder!

That's the stuff. Just gun it!


http://youtu.be/NbLMrce7OJI

Dealing out the agony within
Charging hard and no one's gonna give in
Living on your knees, conformity
Or dying on your feet for honesty
Inbred, our bodies work as one
Bloody, but never cry submission
Following our instinct not a trend
Go against the grain until the end

Blood will follow blood
Dying time is here
Damage Incorporated

Slamming through, don't fuck with razorback
Stepping out? You'll feel our hell on your back
Blood follows blood and we make sure
Life ain't for you and we're the cure
Honesty is my only excuse
Try to rob us of it, but it's no use
Steamroller action crushing all
Victim is your name and you shall fall

Blood will follow blood
Dying time is here
Damage Incorporated

We chew and spit you out
We laugh, you scream and shout
All flee, with fear you run
You'll know just where we come from

Damage Incorporated

Damage jackals ripping right through you
Sight and smell of this, it gets my goin'
Know just how to get just what we want
Tear it from your soul in nightly hunt
Fuck it all and fucking no regrets
Never happy endings on these dark sets
All's fair for Damage Inc. you see
Step a little closer if you please

Blood will follow blood
Dying time is here
Damage Incorporated

Offline Paul Brennan

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2013, 04:35:52 pm »
There are tons of awesome positions to aid on the Nose but aiding that much A1 would be boring as hell.

Boring as hell for you. Personally, I'd take aiding every inch of the nose over going back to the same 5.13 over and over to red point. To me thats the epitome of tedium. Climbing is a broad church.

Haven't done the nose, but Zodiac is great fun. I dare say either choice will provide a good time! Good luck and have fun :-)

Offline cobbledik

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2013, 10:53:28 pm »
Every A1 pitch can be A2-5 depending on how you decide to play it. Have fun up there, it's your climb not theirs.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline Gagner

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 09:13:50 pm »
Munge -

The Nose is one of the greatest rock climbs in the world.  Do it!!  Try to when it's not crawling with climbers.  Zodiac is also a great climb, but different as everyone knows.  If I was going to only do one El Cap route I'd do the Nose hands down.  If I was going to do two, Zodiac would probably be number 2.  It gets complicated after that:)

Paul

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2013, 01:24:43 pm »
Thx Paul!

That settles it, gotta do both.

Now hopefully I have enough vacation.

:)

Offline mhudon

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 02:18:32 pm »
The Nose, no matter how you climb it, and then the Zodiac, back to back, would be a stellar two weeks (or two days, depending on who you were ;-) )

Offline lambone

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 09:11:31 pm »
We did the Tripple Direct and Zodiac back to back. Topped out, hiked off and went up on Zod the next morning. 9 days in all I think.

Those were my first two trips up the Captain, good times!!!

Offline Gagner

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2013, 08:21:02 pm »
When I was much younger - we did Mescalito - Prow - PO back to back on a 3-week trip.  Man, my hands were sore after that.....

Offline mhudon

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2013, 09:26:45 am »
Dang, Paul, that's a good triple!

Offline offset

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Re: Nose or Zod?
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2013, 02:35:27 pm »
after climbing zodiac, i couldn't wait to get on some free climbing
after climbing the nose, i couldn't wait to climb the nose again

i think some of that is that you just know that if you were just a little better free climber you could free climb just a little more of itand it would be that much more fun.    i think that phenomenon will exist for anyone that climbs it.     

taking nothing away from the zodiac....   just sayin..