Author Topic: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here  (Read 2308 times)

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Offline dindolino32

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3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« on: October 08, 2013, 12:15:55 am »
Hi all,
I just joined the forum and read through all 37 pages on this forum and never found any answer to these problems.

1. I have used my double ledge about 5 times now and still haven't found an easy way to place that damn spreader bar.  Any suggestions?

2. Why don't the haul bags come with the foam/thin plastic/cardboard lining that everyone has accepted as necessary to maintain their bag?

3. Is anyone willing to lend me a copy of the Clean Walls DVD?  I live in the San Francisco area, climb at Planet Granite if any of you people are out there.  I can't find it for sale and thought it might be helpful and enjoyable to watch with my wife. 

4. What's the hardest grade you can boulder? :)
Thanks in advance to all!
Daniel

Offline cobbledik

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 09:41:49 am »
1. Everyone finds their own way. No one likes my way, but it works for me. I set the ledge up solo (partners in the past have been usually crying or comatose in their own head by nightfall) so the spreader bar goes on in the beginning after attaching the outside bars on one end. The spreader bar being there helps keep things relatively rectangular instead of hourglassey. Also, best advice for setting up a ledge is not to be afraid to use the hammer. No hammer? second best advice is not to be afraid of walls that require nailing.

2. You don't need that shit. If you do then, the plastic/cardboard/foam that people use to line their bags are consumable and need to be replaced often so additions like that are the responsibility of the end-user. Also, duct tape and/or pasticdip over holes and tears works fine.

3. Nope. Don't got it.

4. Bouldering is a supreme waste of all of the gear I have laying around in my apartment.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 10:38:14 am »
Quote
4. What's the hardest grade you can boulder? :)


C3

Offline johnmac

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 10:59:48 am »
Daniel,

Welcome to the forum.

I can help you out with question number 3 (the clean walls dvd). Shoot me an email and I'll send you it to view. You can send it back to me when you have finished. Teeing off is a great technique. It should be mainstream.

This number of people on this site is pretty low and we tend to help each other out. And there is very little BS.

Cheers

John


Offline cobbledik

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 11:18:27 am »
I tee'd off on Tribal Rite last month totally on accident. I was like, "oh yea! Forgot about this!" And kept on doing it for the remainder of the route. Does anyone know if it's practical when top stepping on vertical or more than vertical terrain? I can't really get it to work because there's less ladder to work with, is there an adjustment that needs to be made at the extent of one's reach?

Sry for the thread drift
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline johnmac

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 11:43:12 am »
It's much easier when you are lower in the aiders and this is where teeing off shines.

Top stepping and teeing off at the same time on vertical or overhanging terrain ... I don't personally believe that it can be done. I've practiced it a bunch of times and without a fifi keeping me tight, my balance point (center of gravity) is too low and I start to topple backwards.


Offline mungeclimber

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 12:39:30 pm »
I think it's possible on right around vertical for subtop in certain aiders, but it's core workout. Helps if you have something you can crimp off of to get you standing up right.

But the few T offs I've done successfully have been on less than vertical.

Overhanging, not for me...

a worthy topic, and if anyone would make a youtube vid on how to do it, I'd link that shit right here, right now.

Offline cobbledik

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 12:49:23 pm »
I'll make a video next time I take my GF out for jugging practice.

I wrote this blog post about it a while ago.
http://climbing.kevindeweese.com/?p=272
Quote
HOW TO “TEE OFF” WHILST AIDING

I (sometimes) tee off** if I need support for reaching the next piece

** Teeing off is where you will take your upper foot, fold it in front of your aiders to make a figure 4 shape, then trap it in place with the pressure of the adier being cammed into the wall by your lower foot. I’m assuming that doesn’t help with a visual so I’ll try again.

step 1: realize, “crap, I need to get up higher in my aiders but the angle of the wall is going to make me fall backwards!!!”
step 2: place your lower foot in the highest step of the ladder that you’ll need to accomplish said move.
step 3: using that lower foot, pull the aider back from the wall to give yourself space to place your other leg between the aider and the wall.
step 4: take your higher foot and fold it between the wall and the aiders; it will create a figure 4 shape where your toe is pointing down and your heel pointing up.
step 5: allow the aiders to move back to the wall by ceasing to pull the aiders back from the wall.
– this will have the effect of trapping your higher foot/leg in place between the aider and the wall
step 6. stand up on the lower foot now. You will notice that the camming action of the weight of your body pushing the aider against the wall will work against the higher leg that is trapped.
step 7: you are now teeing off and achieving the same counter-acting forces that are produced by using a fifi to pull down while you top step.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline johnmac

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 01:26:41 pm »
If you have a hand hold that changes everything...

The steeper it is the more core strength is required and at some point I kind of think it isn't worth the effort. A bit like top stepping... I do it when I have to do to reach a placement, but wouldn't I think of doing it every time...  It just too much work.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 01:36:02 pm »
yeah, I kind of figure it's a specialized technique to avoid nailing, or make a Layton Kor kind of reach on an existing line.

Offline lambone

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 02:27:55 pm »
Welcome.

1. Which ledge? Metolious or BD?

2. I use the foam pad that I sleep with. Haulbag companies arn't concerned with the holes you put in your pig. That's how they sell more haulbags. My last 3 pigs have had to be replaced because the stitching tore out on the bottom. The best thing you can do to preserve your pig is to reinforce that area.

3. nope

Offline dindolino32

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2013, 10:03:28 pm »
I have the Metolius double ledge.  I guess it makes business sense  tp keep haul bags from being all out indestructible. 

Offline offset

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 12:00:36 pm »
1) i have the old bd ledge that 'unfolds'... sorry
2) if you've got a second (or third...fourth..whatever) pig on the wall that you aren't going to open till several days in.. i'd use cardboard as an internal protector.  any time i've tried to use a protector, it's next to impossible to re-stuff the pig in the morning if it has a foam pad or cardboard around it.  it works great on the ground.. but hanging.. not so much...

other than that.. just be vigilant in packing the pig that sharp things aren't pressing against the pig walls.
3) don't got it... tons of you-tubes exist tho
4) v5/6 in the gym v0/1  in the valley... :(


Offline mhudon

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 10:30:17 pm »
I have a Metolius Double, this is how I do it. It usually takes me about ten minutes.

Get the ledge hanging from the bolt you'll be sleeping on. Tie your rope over there with a good sized loop, attach yourself to the loop via your Gri-gri and lower down so the the long side poles are at about your shins. Make sure the ledge hanging straps are fully lengthened.
Get the long side poles together and get the ledge nice and organized. I call this the "canoe" position. Get the straps all straight and the end poles folded nicely into the bed material between the two long poles. Make sure the bed tightening straps are fully loosened and that the bed is fairly centered on the long poles.
I have a 1/2" webbing loop girth hitched to the center of the outside pole next to the ledge harness strap. In fact, I've duct taped it there permanently. Clip a biner into that loop and reach up and clip it into the same spot the whole ledge is hanging from, high enough so that the whole ledge is now laying flat against the wall, hanging completely from the outside pole. This will keep it out of the wind and will also allow you to swing back and forth and set the end poles.
Swing to one end and set the end pole, snug up the bed straps a little bit. Swing over to the other end and do the same. Swing to the middle, I don't know if there is a spreader bar on a single but if there is put its end into the wall side pole, get your toe alongside it, cup its outside end in your hand, give the wall side pole a little bounce and pop the spreader bar into the air side pole at the same time.
Your ledge should now be assembled, still hanging flat against the wall. Unclip the hero loop, drop the ledge down flat, crawl into it and tighten up the bed straps. After that, tighten up the hanging straps and then position it up and down, using the Yates adjustable daisy you have connected to the main ledge tie in point. I like to have the ledge about 12 to 8 inches below the bottom of the haul bags so that I can comfortably stand on the ledge to get into my bags. I tie a little sling from the end of the ledge the bags are on (better to have them overhanging your feet rather than your head) up to another part of the anchor so that it doesn't swing out when I'm standing on that end.

When you disassemble the ledge, lengthen the ledge harness straps, loosen the bed straps and all the rest in reverse order. Don't forget that if you stuff the ledge into its haul sack nice and neat and organized, it will come out of the haul sack, at the end of the day, when you're beat and tired and maybe in the dark or rain, all nice and neat and organized, making it far easier to set up.

There ya go. Make sure you practice this, actually hanging, half a dozen times at your local climbing gym.

Cardboard, yes, nine walls, never a problem loading the bag.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 07:48:49 pm by mhudon »

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 11:08:38 pm »
That is the best description of how to set up a ledge I have ever read Mark.

Gonna try the sling in the middle trick, sounds like the ticket.


Offline mhudon

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2013, 11:15:35 pm »
Thanks.

Max built a 3:1 on his spreader bar so he could bend it easily and attach it! it works slick!

Offline dindolino32

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2013, 11:21:59 pm »
I feel so dumb now by not thinking of hanging the p-ledge by the long pole and using my foot!  I read other posts but i guess i still didnt get it.  I was basically using my foot and just pulling with my arms! I guess my mind was stuck in muscle mode instead of thinking like an aid climber! (Use gear not muscle!) I guess i have got a lot to learn. Thanks so much!

Offline mhudon

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 05:49:55 pm »
My motto for wall climbing is : "if you are using brute strength to do something, you are fucking up".

Offline cobbledik

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 06:55:14 pm »
not 100% of the time...

It can sometimes be easier to nail from the third or fourth step rather than tensioning and using brute strength to 2nd or top step on vertical to more than vertical terrain. Of course this means you're scarring the rock more (a la Mr. Pelut).

Use brute strength over more nailing every time.

nitpicking, I know.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline lambone

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2013, 11:47:02 am »
There's no excuse for placing in the fourth steps! If I can get an easy placement from the 3rd I often will vrs taking the extra time to reposition and shift to the second. Depends on where the placements are really.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2013, 01:04:40 pm »
On Window Pane flake on LF, I really found it easier to stay low in my ladders and reach up occasionally to place clean gear. I wonder how that was done on the FA?

Offline cobbledik

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2013, 02:21:13 pm »
In tribute to Hudon, I used his 2:1 haul bag strap idea on my last solo and it was a life saver on the lower pitches. Especially when I didn't even have the brute strength needed to lift the Zion bag.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline mhudon

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Re: 3 questions on my 1st topic/post here
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2013, 04:03:11 pm »
Thanks. That's a great little trick, isn't it?

As far as btute strength and moving in your aiders is concerned, usually, the easiest way is the best way although getting into your top steps on steep terrain certainly require gymnastic ability, core strength and no small amount of animal determination.

It's not always faster to move up higher in your steps if an easy placement is available. Being shorter, I'll bet I'm naturally more centered on my second steps or higher than taller people. I rarely place gear from my third steps (mostly because when I'm that low in my steps, the current piece is probably at my chin!). The Window Pane Flake is a perfect example of when to stay low vs. expend strength trying to get higher.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 07:48:08 pm by mhudon »