Author Topic: Bigwall Lending Library  (Read 1075 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Erik Sloan

  • Purveyor of Fine Topos
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Yosemitebigwall.com
    • View Profile
Bigwall Lending Library
« on: February 12, 2014, 07:29:42 am »
Yo Gang,

Just in the research and exploratory phases here, but one of my goals with yosemitebigwall.com forever has been to create a lending library of bigwall stuff that doesn't get too trashed: Big cams, pins, ascenders, drills, hooks, heads (just pay for what you use), Double gear sling, hammers, etc.

I don't have any idea of how it would work best: if it should be a club you join for one-time $10-$20 fee for database maintenance and then you could 'borrow' the gear for a credit card deposit, just pay shipping? Or maybe do an online fundraising campaign to get it started with cash and gear donations and then just see where it goes? Brainstorm some ideas with me of how this might look.

I know from talking with many, many new bigwall climbers each year that the cost of the equipment skyrocketing as it has been makes it difficult for folks. Not having the right rack, because they spent all their money on ascenders,haulbags,etc, causes folks to nail when they could use an offset cam, so this is an impact issue as well. (if you don't think this is an issue follow a european team around the Valley sometime--nearly all of them nail way more than americans).

I hope the recent publication of the Complete Guide will dissuade anyone from worrying here that the cliffs will be overrun with newbies--like my friends at the weight room always said 'at the end of the day 50 lbs is still 50 lbs' ;)

Woot!
erik
erik@yosemitebigwall.com

Offline mungeclimber

  • Administrator
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
    • View Profile
    • http://www.sonorapassclimbing.com
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 11:52:06 am »
That's a tough one.

Borrowing from friends means one is less likely to beat the crap out of something unnecessarily.

Credit cards means mucho overhead and security of the card #.

Easy access to pick the gear up is a hard issue.  A mtn & rental shop just outside the park?

Extra cam rentals, especially offsets, would be nice to your point about the EU teams. I've seen that occur, and was sorta taken aback. But since I'm not local, I guess I wouldn't see the patterns over time.

In the end cam rentals are a consumable. Aiding on cams mangles them over time. Which guy or gal pays for the final failure?

Offline *Mucci*

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 12:23:37 pm »
Dope miller product did something similar.

For a nominal fee you got "packages" That included ledges, bags, heads, etc..

It never seemed to take off, maybe that was due to the lack of marketing or general effort?

I put up my swage work on the site, and would be contacted with orders when they came in.

Not much work came in, even though the prices were very attractive, both on the package options, or just the price of heads etc..


I like the idea, and agree there are some hoops to jump.

Having a local, or semi local hub near YOS would be a good start.

Offline Raaf

  • A2 Flyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 01:15:56 pm »
Hi Erik,

I'm sympathetic to the concept of sharing and lending big wall gear to people who are still accumulating what they need. It's expensive stuff and so many of the items are specific to a wall trip. Just this past Fall I responded to the plea of a acquaintance who posted a request list on Facebook. I lent her a haul bag, some aiders, adjustable daisies, hooks, etc. for the season.

Yet at the risk of coming across as negative: I'm a little skeptical about a permanent lending system. You posted a sample list of things that "don't get trashed too much". . . . . My experience is that everything gets trashed! And if you don't know something's history, how much can you trust it when you're up on a wall, all sketched out on lead?

I think an efficient approach might be to establish a separate 'forum post' category here (and maybe Mountain Project) where people post their borrowing wish list. If they are someone you're psyched to support, the two parties will figure out a private arrangement where they borrow some gear. Most of us have a few 'retired' wall items that are still functional. Maybe we can make borrowing/lending a more common practice.

All the best,
Raaf


Offline cobbledik

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
    • View Profile
    • Fail Falling
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 04:34:06 pm »
Valley giants would be awesome to have in the inventory.
Sometimes the difference between a layman and a journeyman is simply what he is allowed to believe himself to be.

Offline Erik Sloan

  • Purveyor of Fine Topos
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Yosemitebigwall.com
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 07:58:59 am »
Thanks Guys!

Raaf, I really like your idea. I think it would be awesome if we had a forum spot that was about loaning essential gear that we don't use all the time. That way Valley Giants and other things could be gotten on a pretty easy, as needed, basis.

Keep the thoughts comin!

Offline Aaron McDonald

  • Gumby
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 04:54:06 pm »
Valley giants would be awesome to have in the inventory.

Agreed.  I was just about to pull the trigger on a couple of these guys.

I like the idea of a rental program but people generally do not take care of things very well when they are rented.  You would almost need a training program to ensure that people properly know how to use, clean, lube and return the gear in good working condition.  What would seem self evident may not be to anther person.  I personally believe that when you use someone gear you should return it in better working condition than when you received. If I damage anything on borrowed gear I replace it immediately.

Offline Danish

  • Gumby
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2014, 12:52:59 am »
I'm currently a board member for an entirely volunteer run club that operates outside of UCSB in Isla Vista, CA. We've got about 1700 active registered members and run a pretty solid ship checking out outdoor gear to our members for free once they're a member. For a complete look at basically how our club works, see www.excursionclubucsb.org
$60 gets you access to our gear for 365 days. Weekly, our 40 staffers lead an average of 35 trips of huge variety.
Anyway, Aaron is right, our gear gets pretty damaged in a fraction of the time it would for a single person. However, the price is unbeatable for the member and our sheer size allows us to constantly replenish our gear as it gets worn out.

The reason I am saying all of this is not to talk up/advert the club (sort of haha), but point out that it doesn't seem feasible for something like the Valley (or wall climbing localities). There are many conditions that allow us to operate a club well, where as operating a (likely decentralized) climbing 'lending-library' would be much harder to maintain.
Isla Vista happens to be a densely populated college town and we've got a huge variety of different outdoor options in and around the Santa Barbara area. We have a single house where everything is operated, maintained, and located. We also operate as a co-op, not a business.
This is not to say that if there's someone interested who lives in Oakhurst (or wherever nearby) who has extra space and a shit load of time...make it happen! I'm super down to get in touch and give you ideas and structures to facilitate a localized lending library. I'd be amped to do it, have gear to donate already, and have plenty of knowledge that I can offer to help get it off the ground.

So anyway, I think there's a very solid idea in a lending forum! What if instead of a single thread, we add another section to the "Big Wall Index" called Lending Library." Raaf's comment about parties creating 'private arrangement(s)' is excellent. Speaking for myself, I would have no problem lending certain items of my own gear out after making some sort of collateral or whatever exchange.

Moderators & Forum posters, what think ye?

EDIT: Weird HTML thing, text is all the same.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 02:10:18 am by Danish »

Offline Erik Sloan

  • Purveyor of Fine Topos
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Yosemitebigwall.com
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2014, 05:05:33 am »
Looks good Danish. I would love to see you guys start to lend out bigwall gear. Why haven't you yet? or what is holding the club back from offering more climbing gear?

What is your first and last name?

Are you saying the club is interested in lending out bigwall gear?

Your website looks interesting. It does seem pertinent to ask - from a bigwall climbers perspective, wouldn't people want to know that they would be able to rent gear before paying for 90 day membership (or longer for that matter)? To address this I've been working on a model that assigns either a rental price to each item with a maximum amount, so say you can rent a hammer and funkness for $5/week, but there would also be a maximum rental amount, say $100/week where you could get a portaledge and everything.

What do folks think about this?

At minimum it seems like this crowd would be into:

Big Cams
Haulbags
Bolt Kits
Portaledge(if you're flying)


Offline The Wolf

  • A2 Flyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2014, 11:20:29 am »
Hey J. Mucci, 
Yeah, I sort of put a hold on Dope Miller Equip while I was making the film. I am in the process of relaunching that website and biz.
I am looking at a lot of different biz models.   The rental thing has been busy this spring, though I have not put it out there, I am booked though May for gear mostly Euros and East Coasties come to The Valley.

Look for a relaunch soon.  (If the new film I'm working on does not take over my life)

Offline The Wolf

  • A2 Flyer
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: Bigwall Lending Library
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2014, 11:33:44 am »
Erik,
I can tell you that 100 a week for a whole package will not pay for gathering and maintaining inventory unless you are talking about a Co-Op where everyone shares in gear and money.  At 100 per week if you only have 1 package the logistics can kill you and the financial model of maintaining gear, insurance, lost gear and management of the whole deal may not be worth it.  I believe in the idea, it's why I am doing it on a smallish scale but I will say it's takes time and effort. It does not run itself.