Author Topic: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?  (Read 8504 times)

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Offline Teth

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Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« on: October 20, 2006, 11:49:49 am »
On RockClimbing.com moof wrote:

Quote
I tried the adjustable fifi and hated it. If I used slippery 7mm it are a real SOB to pull slack in. Same with stiffy 6mm. When I went to some slippery 6mm I got disaster. Mid-pitch the top strand slipped past the lower strand and I got a 12" pant fouler drop onto my adjustable daisy.


Has this happened to anyone else? Is it common? I really like my Kong adjustable fifi rigged with stiff but slippery 6mm cord. Should I be worried?

Teth
I don?t trust fear, it lies to me!

Offline Craig Peer

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Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 12:21:35 pm »
WTF is an adjustable fifi? A fifi is a hook on a biner - what's to adjust??

Offline the_dude

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Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 01:20:32 pm »
To me that just seems like to much stuff to mess with on your harness. 2 adjustable daisies is all I need. The more stuff the more chance for cluster and greater chance of moving slower.

Offline Teth

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Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 02:03:00 pm »
Craig, the Kong adjustable fifi has a hole and a slot at its base. You thread a cord through the slot, then thought the hole, and finally back through the slot (above the previous strand) and attach that end to your harness. It acts like a frictional belay device and your wight locks it off. You can extend it out to arm?s length, hook it on your piece, step up in your aiders while pulling the cord tight, and then just sit in your harness while pondering the next move.

I have sort of stopped using daisies, although probably should as I am risking dropping my aid trees.  Been thinking of just attaching the aid trees to my harness with cord to prevent dropage.

I will probably go with the adjustable daisies once I can spare the cash, but the adjustable fifi cost less, so that is what I am using.

Teth
I don?t trust fear, it lies to me!

Offline Teth

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2006, 06:33:09 am »
I went home and tried to reproduce the situation from the quote I posted above. If I manually pushed the top strand in the slot to the bottom and then weighted it, it just popped back to the top and locked in the correct configuration. Maybe moof had it rigged differently.

Teth
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Offline freakshow

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2006, 11:11:51 am »
Haven't had any problems with the adjustable fifi...sounds like you may have it rigged incorrectly.  Here's how I have it set up.



The left strand is girth hitched onto my harness and the right strand has a stopper knot on the end.  When weighted the cord cinches tight.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 12:20:55 am »
I'm Moof elsewhere.

I indeed had mine rigged differently, the same as the one in this pic:

http://photos.rockclimbing.com/photos//34/3493.jpg

I'll have to dig mine out of the reject duffel and play with it again.

Offline Unreleasedenergy

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 02:34:32 pm »
hmm,
I've never used an adjustable fifi, been meaning to give it a try and see if its smoother than easy daisys.
so, I don't know which is the proper way to rig a kong bonatti,
but, moof/garbonzo rigged his according to passthepitonspete's photo on RC.com.
which is also rigged for left handed operation (i've memorized the caption to that photo) :)
since pete always says theres a better way, maybe he can clear this up?
from his articles he seems to be a big fan of the kong and uses it extensively so he should know.

Offline freakshow

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2006, 04:07:27 pm »
Ya Garbonzo, by no means is the way I've rigged mine the right way or even the 'Better Way' but it works for me.  When I bought it the guy in the gear shop didn't know how to rig it either so we tried a couple of different configurations and came up with what I have in the photo.

Offline Teth

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 11:23:48 am »
Garbonzo, can you take your fifi and make the top strand slip past the bottom strand (or whatever) into the configuration that allowed it to slip on you, then take a photo and post it. I can?t get my head around how the fifi rigged as PTPP suggests could slip into a failing configuration. I have plaid with mine, but have not been able to make it fail. I will likely continue to use my adjustable fifi, but if there is a weakness in the system, I would really like to understand it.

Teth
I don?t trust fear, it lies to me!

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 01:26:15 pm »
Will do.  I found the fifi.  I'll try and make it happen with some 5mm cord or something to exaggerate it.  The cord I was using when it happened was pretty well tenderized by the fifi when it did it.  I have a sample of the same exact cord still, but it is not nearly as flacid.

When it happened to me I was leavering the crap out of it.  When I got back down and tinkered I have to basically bounc test it to reproduce it with the same beat up cord.  Basically the weighted cord slipped to the outside, and loose strand got mushed on the inside. 

It happened on Left Ski Track in Jtree.  At the end of the day I also found out that my particular Silent Partner didn't like the cold and could not be made to lock up at <45 F.  My opinion of the adjustable fifi is probably colored by the summation of all of the heeby jeebies of that day.

Still need to get around to sending that back to the factory.  Also need to send back my MaxCam.  Must get around to working on my procrastination too.

Offline deuce4

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 02:57:07 pm »
Scary to hear the Silent Partner didn't work in the cold.  I remember talking with Mark Blanchard, the inventor, and he was concerned about that, but he seemed to think that his design would work in the cold.

hmmm
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Offline passthepitonspete

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2006, 08:11:47 pm »
Hey you young whippersnappers, heed the advice of your Wall Doctor.

1. Rig the damn thing the right way as shown in my photo [and the freakin' directions!] not as shown in the photo above. Sheesh.

2. As I have written you-know-where, 7mm is too stiff.

3. As I have also written you-know-where, slippery 6mm cord is slippery and works perfectly, but can slip.

4.  The key - use 6mm, and tie a slipknot in the free end of the cord after you fifi yourself into the desired length. Sheesh.

Caveats:

- the adjustable fifi is really only handy on STEEP rock - I never used the damn thing once on The Prow.

- you don't need it on less-than-steep or easy aid [A1, A2] - just use your adjustable daisies.

- on steep and hard aid, the thing is ETS - Emphatically The Shit.  You will love it to really fine-tune your top-stepping.


All this was explained on RC.n00b.  Read the damn posts, will ya? Sheesh.
Dr. Piton says, "There is always a Better Way!"

Offline Teth

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2006, 01:08:12 pm »
Your posts are a bit messed up right now, but various RC aid climbers are kicking up a stink, so it will hopefully be fixed. Tis a universal problem, not just the doctor?s posts. Of course the doctor had a lot more links and photos than the average user, but as I say, we are kicking up a fuss to have the problems fixed.

Interestingly the thread discussing this turned into an informal petition to allow the good doctor back into town. Some of us aren?t quite clear on why you were run out of town in the first place, but it was suggested that it was due to violations of the rules listed in  ?Specific Forum Policies? section of the forum rules. Reading it over, I suspect you actually broke most, if not all, of them, which is not surprising as it has also been reported that this section was written immediately after you left the forum, suggested that you were the inspiration for these policies. Some of those policies seem strangely specific.

Anyway, the place seems strangely sterile without you there. We will see if we get any response from the current group of moderators. I think they are rather busy right now though, getting ragged on for completely trashing the forum format. Hopefully they will at least manage to fix the links and imbedded images.

Teth
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Offline Strider

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2006, 02:48:08 am »
As Pete mentions above, the extra Fifi is really only needed on steep stuff.  I found my Kong invaluable on WFLT since I had to step high and really stretch back to make some placements, even though those placements were A1.  On anything else though it just gets in your way.  When not in use I rig my Kong to my front left gear loop and pull it tight.  Stays out of the way and never really had anything catch on it. 

Funny about the Silent Partner comment above.  I used one for the first time this weekend and it was cold a shit and it worked pefectly.  When I put it on the temp of the device was probably around 30 degrees and the outside temp was probably around 40.  This was in the morning and it eventually warmed up but it worked flawlessly that morning and afternoon.  Might want to have a chat with Wren (or whoever makes the SP).  Blanchard isn't too hard to track down on the web, or at least his wife isn't over at ST.com  =)


climb safe
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Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2006, 11:59:55 am »
Yeah, I've been meening to send back my SP for 3 years now.  Mainly been demotivated since I have no intent on climbing on it again.  Once bitten, twice shy.  Maybe I'll get it fixed and dispose of it on ebay...

Offline johnmac

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2007, 07:53:23 pm »

Offline passthepitonspete

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2007, 09:55:21 am »
Be careful how you rig your fifi, eh?



The rig above is the way I do mine.  I like to have two "donuts" on my harness.  The problem with this is that you transfer weight from one aider to the other, the donut slides and rubs against the "crossbar" of the harness.  So what ends up happening after a while with this "sawing action" is that you get huge amounts of abrasion in your "crossbar". 

Accordingly, what you need to do is thoroughly wrap your crossbar in multiple layers of duct tape, and retape when necessary.  This is important! - if you don't do it, after a few walls you will find your crossbar badly abraded!  Even if you don't use two donuts, you also need to put extra wraps of duct tape around the crossbar directly under your adjustable fifi hook's point of attachment, because the cord rotates as you move, and will also abrade the crossbar. 

I have worn out two crossbars doing this.  Sheesh.

Remember when you order a harness from John Yates, you can also order a second donut.  He will tell you about the abrasion problem, though. Also note that you can mix and match on waist section and leg section of your harness, if you need different sizes.  It's also worth noting that he makes a probably-still-unpublished "medium-small" size that is halfway between "medium" and "small", and ditto for a "medium-large".   
Dr. Piton says, "There is always a Better Way!"

Offline Latok

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2007, 01:34:46 pm »
Id like to find a few like that. I like them.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2007, 11:57:06 pm »
i must be missing something because I can dial in my adjustables furking perfectly. how would a feef make it better?

gracias

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2007, 03:11:03 pm »
Munge,

  I'm with you.  However I do understand why many folks have trouble with just using the adjustable daisies.  A couple partners I've had attach them very differently than I do.

For comparison:
1.  I girth hitch my adjustable around the leg loops and swami tie in.  Others girth hitch to the belay loop.
Why?  I want to cinch up mine very short AND keep my belay loop relatively uncluttered.

2.  I use one lead biner that has both the daisy and aider on it.  I clip this in as high on the piece as I can while still leaving the ability to clip in the rope without unweighting it.  Others clip in a biner.  Then they clip in their daisy's biner, which has their aiders dangling below on yet another biner.
Why?  Again I want simplicity and short cinching ability.

I still find that when overhung in my second rings I wish for slightly better cinching, but I've stopped using the fifi for some time now.

Also note that Russ' adjustable daisies have a ~12' girth hitching loop.  Not sure what he intends folks to lassoo, but I chose to cut mine off and sew a tiny ~3-4" one that lets my cinch within an inch of my harness.

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2009, 10:14:24 am »
So I recently have been playing with one of these.  I had never seen one before and have been trying to soften to the idea.

Currently I use an adjustable Daisy modified with a fifi hook on it.  This is my adjustable fifi, it kicks ass, but has its drawbacks. 

I like the idea of this thing but have encountered 2 main issues that I am not as crazy about, anyone have solutions:

1.  it is so freaking difficut to extend.  The cordage seems to bite so hard on the edges of the fifi that it is quite the arm workout to extend the thing back out.  Anyone have any tips?


2.  Once cinched down, under weight there is no way to extend it back out (mainly for top stepping where you are sucked in close, then want to climb up into the top steps but need to extend that fifi out a little bit).


I realize no solution is available for #2, as that is the nature of the knot, I may be able to live with this, but what about #1? 


Thoughts and ideas?

Offline lambone

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2009, 11:09:02 am »
I have one, used it on my solo of Zodiac, never again. Hard to adjust and eventually the chord started slipping.

Adjusties w/regular fifi is better.

Offline passthepitonspete

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Re: Will my Kong Adjustable fifi let me down?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 08:40:28 pm »
Quote
"i must be missing something because I can dial in my adjustables furking perfectly. how would a feef make it better?

gracias"

You can climb for years [on easy and not-steep aid] and never need an adjustable fifi at all.  Where the thing really comes in handy is in two situations - steep and hard.  When you're fighting the overhanging, and reaching for every inch or even centimetre you can reach, then the adjustable fifi lets you tune your top-stepping to a RCH.  You can get up into your highest step, to that point of extreme fear and imbalance, then pull the thing tight to precisely the right tension, and you're good.  Teamed up with Russian Aiders the things are the bomb for steep and hard aid.   

Use SLIPPERY 6mm cord, and tie a slipknot in the free end so it doesn't suddenly slip and send you flying, and you're good to go.  If you use 7mm cord, or 6mm that is not slippery enough, it's too hard to operate. 
Dr. Piton says, "There is always a Better Way!"