Author Topic: Rope Question  (Read 2470 times)

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Offline Kuntor

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Rope Question
« on: August 24, 2009, 06:24:44 pm »
Hey all, this may be a stupid question but: I'm about to retire my lead rope as it's entering its 7th year of use. The sheath and all is still cool, and no major falls have been taken on it, but I was wondering if any of you all think I could still use it as an ascending/second's rope, or if I just need to go ahead and dedicate it to haul line. Thanks!

Offline Mike.

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 07:46:31 pm »
I wouldn't haul with any dynamic line that I wasn't prepared to lead on.

I had a nine year old lead line that served all sorts of duties; haul line, fix line, haul/jug line, and I just retired it. Honestly, I think it had more life left in it.

I think as long as the line hasn't been heavily used (read: many long falls) and doesn't begin to look or feel odd, it's good to go. I'd guess there's a limit to this thinking and you might not want to support life by a 20-year-old line...

Anybody hear any reports of a dynamic line failing in a hauling or jugging situation? I haven't, and I can't say the same about static line.
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skully

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 04:05:10 pm »
In agreement with the Mike.
My bro Cade & I used a 12 year old Stratos for a lead cragging line here in Boise, & it went up the 1st ascent of the Tempest.
Of course it wasn't quite 12 years old when we were using it, more like 10......but, anyway.
It now holds my tire swing.
I'm thinking your "ascending-second line" would make a fine extra lead, at least for a while.
Just keep your eye on its condition. Hell, that's a good rule with ALL cords.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 11:49:35 am »
Sounds like a perfect candidtate as a haul line to me :-)


Offline del cross

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 03:21:23 pm »
"Anybody hear any reports of a dynamic line failing in a hauling or jugging situation?"

In his (and Middendorf's) wall book John Long mentions a friend who died while jugging a fixed dynamic rope that sawed through.

Not a true failure I suppose but I had a dynamic haul line sheath fail. My partner was down hauling because the bag had gotten hung up and the sheath parted about a foot or more. It was his lead rope and he planned on leading with it after we finished the route. By coincidence there was a ratty, knotted up old 9mm discarded on a ledge that I was jugging past. Presto! New haul line.

I've always figured my old lead ropes were perfect for haul and fix lines. Last year one of them (a Beal, I think) had really bad sheath slippage when I rappelled on it after fixing it. It was all bunched up and twisted at the bottom, really annoying to rappel on and kind of unnerving to jug back up. I tend to retire my ropes from leading on the early side so I was surprised when this happened. I have to admit it did have an "old" feel to it. Anyways, it sure made me look askance at that box of old ropes.

Offline Mike.

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 04:32:10 pm »
Thanks for the input, del. Interesting scenarios.

I've never been a big fan of pre-fixing lines. I know there have been a couple of fatalities on fixed free lines, and that's one reason I don't do it much. I would say bouncing one's way up a rope is never a good thing, but having that rope run through numerous fixed points mitigates the effect of the bouncing. Pitch two on the Trip scored at least one fatality in a pre-fixing situation, but I would guess since the offending edge is close to the anchor that it probably wouldn't matter much whether the line was dynamic or not. Stressing "guess."

I absolutely could see ripping the sheath down-hauling since the teeth/jaw is mostly what's stopping the downward movement of the bag. Sort of like arresting a small fall. (Unlike regular hauling, where the teeth grab at the apex of the stroke.) I've never really thought about it in those terms before your post. Was it a toothed hauler? Low on the route (slabby, heavy load)? Details are appreciated.

This might be running slightly afield from the OP, but learning how to keep our ropes intact seems like useful info. Cheerio.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline del cross

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 05:36:43 pm »
Details, details. It was a wall hauler, so definately teeth. Rope was a 10.5 Edelweiss Stratos in (what appeared to be) decent shape. We were halfway up but it was March and kind of weird weather and we had a bunch of extra stuff, so a moderately heavy bag. Not overhanging but not a slab either.

We wondered if the rope had a rare defect or was somehow compromised. We never considered the possibility that down hauling with a toothed device could just rip the sheath on any rope. If that were true wouldn't we all hear about it more often?

Offline Kuntor

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2009, 07:37:33 pm »
You know, while we're on the subject of ropes, I'm kind of curious what you guys' experiences are with the different companies. My buddy's got a Beal that's about 3 years old, and the sheath is getting eaten alive by the ascenders, while my old Sterling line has seen ~6-7 pitches of jugging and doesn't appear any worse for the wear.
Thinking about investing in some PMI static line - any of you guys use them? Had some by them back in my caving days and it took some serious punishment before it was retired.
Thoughts?

skully

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 08:30:03 pm »
Sterlings are good......Edelweiss is a top shelf cord.
I like Mammuts, but Blue waters, PMI, Petzl, & BD ropes suck bad, in my book.
Tried them all, didn't get enough performance.
Good luck.

Offline Mike.

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 09:20:55 pm »
Del: I would be thinking the same RE defect. The Wall Hauler's cam has more like a knurled texture than actual teeth. It's nothing like an ascender. So, yea, dodgy sounding, especially for that cable of a rope.


Kuntor, I think of ropes more model-specifically. I know people are pretty brand-loyal, and I generally am too. But I've owned ho-hum offerings from companies that produce awesome gear. I had bad results with some models that other journeypersons swear by. I am suspect of the "edge rating" and more concerned with how actually burly the kernmantle is, etc.

The Sharp 10.5 from Edellweiss is my go-to lead cord. From what little I've used them, the Yates (Blue Water) Cords seem burly. My Sterling Marathon is indestructible. I have an older one that's ?10.6 and it's a monster. Mammut Serenity and Revelation have both been great cords for free climbing.

I have used PMI 8mm static cords purchased off spools at climbing shops, not sure exactly which cord model. I bought three different 8 mils to use as haul lines, all about the same time. The PMI outlasted the other two by an obvious margin. I just bought another 60m and hope to get the same wear. As we know, YMMV...

« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 09:22:34 pm by Mike. »
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

skully

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 09:56:10 pm »
Results may vary.
Definitely.
An outfit can make a great cord & the next one will suck.
Stupid factories.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 06:14:25 am by skully »

Offline Mike.

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 11:23:24 am »
Aye, mates,

Anyone know of an 11mm dry edge-rated bicolor/bipattern cord? Roca makes a fattie, but it's not dry treated.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 01:32:23 pm »
The Edelweiss has a Sharp 10.5mm bi color availble in 60 and 70m lenghts but not 11mm.

http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=5998

I don't tend to buy 11mm ropes any more but rather 10.5 or so.

skully

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2009, 02:59:55 pm »
I'd take an Edelweiss 10.5 over many competing 11's.
They know their cords.

Offline Mike.

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2009, 11:45:27 pm »
Thanks you guys...for talking me into the rope I already use.

= }
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skully

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Re: Rope Question
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 04:41:00 am »
Top shelf, bro.
You KNOW what's above that. The ceiling.