Author Topic: Portaledge Design Discussion  (Read 24128 times)

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Offline johnmac

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2011, 08:40:44 pm »
Does anyone know what the "breathable" material that the North Face A5 Alpine fly's were made out of? I'm guessing it isn't goretex but some type of similar material.

Thanks.

john

Offline Splitter

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2011, 01:30:21 am »
Man.... I suppose I should Chime in here instead of lurk around.....Here were my thoughts when I started this endevor.

When I decided to start playing with different ledge designs, I was torn between what to use. I felt like current ledges on the market were quite overbuilt and lacking some key features. I thought that i could build a ledge that was more taylored to a persons needs, rather than the masses (this whole side gig I am trying to get going all started with a nicopress so I could make some heads for the valley and fix cams around town BTW....got a little carried away).

The only reason that I went with titanium in the first place was that I got it @ a good price. I figured I could make 3 doubles and 3 singles...A few unique ledges for close to the price of those currently on the market...What I did not figure out until later is that it really hard to sell stuff with out haveing a name or reputation. I felt like with enough time and some of the ideas I had, I would start a business and go from there (you all would laugh if you saw my "shop" it is really small, but it works) I will probabily not make anymore out of titanium as it is really hard to machine and the benifits do not out weigh the price. I think that using CF tube would be worth the price.

  I was thinking like Garbonzo on where could the weight be saved. For my corners I eleminated the eyebolt by drilling through the tube and flaring a piece of 6061 tube...made the straps girth hitch though them (like metolious) and provides easy field repair. Also eliminated the quicklinks and eyebolts....good weight savings. I did use thin urethane for reforcements early on, but it is heavy and ballistic cordura is cheaper. Climbers love duct tape and this works well if wear occurs...lightened the ledge up a bit as well.

For buckles I am not sure wether to go with plastic or the metal cambuckles. The plastic buckles are lighter and cheaper, seem to work just fine on the A5 ledges...going for ultra light right? It was a bitch to find cambuckles that were not made  in china, but I did. I like US made goods but that is another story....
I am working on a single now that breaks into thirds, with the middle section of the length poles being aluminum. I thought that they would hold up better where the straps pull on the frames and adds minimal weight. Also lets me use 2 72" CF tubes and minimal waste.

For the width bars my concern with using CF would be wear and tear. these seem to dangle  and flop around when you are setting up the ledge and I did not want to have the ends get all beat up. I am either going to go with Aluminum and with and internal butted piece of aluminum, and an external butted piece of titanium places on the outside of the CF tube. This would allow the corners to have 2 different alloys and not bind and gull.

Bed fabric, like garbonzo, I felt that the ripstop dyneema was a perfect balence. I havee looked all over hell and back to buy some 500d not in black, but no dice. The dyneema ripstop is plenty burly.

For the ledge size on the few i made i went with 78.5" x 31.5 for my single, and 78.5" x 45 on a double. Shorter frame + stiffer ride and no need for a spreaderbar. I was trying to figure out what is useable vs. wasted space. And no one makes this size anymore. THey fit into BD flys nicely.

I have not worked on a fly as of yet, I have about 1 of each ever made sitting out in my shop to look over with a fine tooth comb. See where improvments could be made.

It has been really fun pplaying around with ledges...Hopefully this will go somkewhere and I can retire from my full time job and do this full time.

I have also found out that the market is way smaller for custom wall equipment..most people want to try wall climbing out, do not want to spend a bunch of money on tricked out ledges and bags, I guess I can keep up with demand for now :)



Sorry for the rant.

Luke Malatesta

PS: Garbonzo....I think it is rad you are building the double...Can't wait to see it!

Johnmac...I think it was called "Tetratek" (the fly material)






























« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 01:40:43 am by Splitter »

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2011, 08:09:39 pm »
For folks looking for ripstop, rockywoods.com is the only place I've found that sells 420 denier ripstop pack cloth ($8/yard).  It would be a little extra insurance over straight packcloth without bumping up to the price of the 500d black/spectra ($17/yard), or going to the weight 1000d corduras.

Offline deuce4

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2011, 12:33:43 am »
JohnMac-the breathable fabric on the North Face A5 breathable ledge flys was a custom fabric I developed.

It used Tetratec PTFE, and had a Trico inner layer. The Trico gave it excellent vapor passing properties for the tent-like application. The outer layer was a good quality oxford.

It only cost $10 per yard, but outperformed Gore-tex ($30/yd) on a number of tests.  It raised some eyebrows within the company due to the long-term business alliances with Gore, and I think it was later discontinued for reasons along that line.

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Offline johnmac

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2011, 12:12:33 pm »
John,

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a great fabric.

Cheers
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 12:25:17 pm by johnmac »

Offline lambone

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2011, 12:52:14 pm »
I've never owned, sat in, or seen in person an A5 or Anker ledge, so I probably have some misconceptions.  As I understand it the main drawback to the fly with the doors was that you had to basically set it up inside the fly, and quick deployment was an issue.  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

nah, basically you set up the ledge and then slide it into the fly. Kind of a tight fit, but otherwise not an issue other then it requires getting out of the ledge.

I think if you own the A5 setup and want to have the Expedition fly for winter, you really need the simple fly also for more summer walls where it's a just in case thing. The Expedition FLY weighs about twice as much and is bulky so I don't like to bring it on "fair weather" walls. Also if you are bringing the Expedition fly your are generally using it to stay warm as well as dry so usually just put the ledge in it when you initially set it up rather then in the middle of the night.

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2011, 12:15:34 am »
Good points Lambone,

How much for your A5 rig?

Offline lambone

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2011, 10:58:09 am »
I think I am gunna keep the Cabana. The three sections make it a bit more difficult to set up and I like the open corner design of the new ledges, but I like how the A5 folds up into a smaller bag. I also think the A5 breathable expedition fly is the best fly ever made for winter walling. Only thing that might beat it is the Bibler tent BD was making.

Only bummer is the prevois owner packed her up wet and the fly has a mildew smell. I've tried to get it out with some products and it's a little better, but still there. Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 11:01:39 am by lambone »

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2011, 09:30:33 am »
Got my new corners in the mail yesterday, and they look fantabulous!

I hedged my bet by leaving in a pilot hole in case I ever want to use the A5/BD style bolt hanger instead of my current plan of using the Fish style webbing attachment.




« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:34:00 am by Garbonzo »

Offline goatboy

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2011, 05:05:20 pm »
Those look great Garbonzo!

hey John, I've bought some ripstop gore tex fabric for a bivy sack through OWF.
http://www.owfinc.com/Fabrics/fabricmain.htm
http://www.owfinc.com/Fabrics/NylonWoven/WaterresistBreathable.asp#Gore-Tex

They have quite a few options for different thickness and colors, you could be the first with a blaze orange camo ledge.

Offline The Wolf

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2011, 10:47:51 am »
I am wondering about the hinges for the center of the long rails. Do you fabricate them? Are they available?  I have a ledge bed and am looking at building the frame.

Offline Baltoro

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2011, 11:01:52 am »
Goatboy
Gore-tex would not be an ideal fabric for a ledge fly. Gore needs to be pretty close to the skin to be breathable. Essentially it needs the atmosphere your body generatesd to push the moisture through. No pushing due to distance from skin = no breathing.

Most of the single wall tent out there use some sort of variation. My guess would be that it's less protected on the inside than GoreTex allowing for more breathability but less durabulity. The inside of any tent or ledge fly is going to see significantly less abrasion and friction than the inside of a jacket so less need for durabilty and it would enhance breathability quite a bit. Some speculation there but that would be my somewhat educated guess.

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Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2012, 10:51:04 am »


ground breaking new design































Offline tnorm2000

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2013, 01:58:56 pm »
I bought a new A5 double ledge in 1999ish. I need a fly. I was looking at BD's cliff cabana expedition fly. I called BD to check compatiablity, they didn't have a clue. Does anyone have any "realworld" experience with this?

Thanks
Troy

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Re: Portaledge Design Discussion
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2013, 07:22:37 pm »
I sewed my own fly once.  T'was a single, though.
With different &"opposing" brands, I'd want to measure it out. Could be tight(bad) or saggy(not quite as bad).