Author Topic: Open Source Russian Aiders  (Read 11971 times)

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Offline Garbonzo

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Open Source Russian Aiders
« on: January 15, 2008, 01:57:22 pm »
Note:  Draft form, still needs some editting for clarification and such.

Warning:  In multiple places there are high load webbing joints where you must sew through 3 layers of thick webbing with lots of stitches.  You'll break you're wifes machine if you try it on a home machine, and probably won't even get it under the foot.  A low end single stitch industrial machine will do fine with #69 or #92 thread, and can be gotten at Harbor Freight for ~400 bucks ($279 for the head, and $129 for the table last I checked), or watch craigslist till one in good shape shows up.  A speed reducing pulley, or servo motor with a low speed setting is HIGHLY recommended as most of the sewing is small runs, and high speed is NOT needed.  Better yet, rework this design for a bartacker if you have one.

Hard Supplies:
1.  Hook from strapworks.com, 1" bent wire hook made by Suncor Stainless, about $3/ea
2.  Cinch buckles, 1", 1000lb rating, from onrope1.com, or innermountainoutfitters.com, about $2/ea
3.  Aluminum Double Pass 1" from innermountainoutfitters.com, about $3/ea.  Onrope1 has some $5 ones I have not tried.
4.  Heavy Duty nylon ladder locks from seattlefabrics.com, or owfinc.com, about $1/ea.

Soft Supplies:
1.  1/4 closed cell foam from seattlefabrics.com.  Not great, but OK.  OWFINC.com also carries foam, but I haven't tried theirs yet.
2.  200d taffeta to cover padding from seattlefabrics.com.  I prefer slippery over fuzzy, YMMV.
3.  Nylon or Polyester 2" seatbelt webbing.  I prefer a slightly softer feel over the stiff stuff REI carries.
4.  Nylon Webbing, 1", about 7' total per leg, with 17" of it required to be tubular per cuff, the rest either thick flat or tubular.
5.  11/16"ish supertape, 40", 20" per stirrup
6.  48" thin flat 1" webbing (3/4" works too, but you'll need 3/4" ladder locks and they always look wimpy to me), 24" per stirrup.

For a 16" calf circumference (right below knee) cut the following (all 2x, 1 each for each leg):
1.  16"x3" 1/4" foam, chamfer the corners 3/16" (adjust up or down for size)
2.  18"x7" 200d covering (adjust up or down for size)
3.  15.5" 2" seatbelt webbing (adjust up or down for size)
4.  24.5" 1" thick webbing, one end cut at 45, increase inch for inch over 17" circumference (length is to the middle of 45 cut, used for cinch strap around calf)
5.  20" 1" thick webbing, one cut at 45 (stirrup to cuff strap, might need longer for >7 footers)
6.  17" 1" tubular, ends singed OPEN (rash guard on stirrups, might need to increase for size 14 folk)
7.  18" 1" thick webbing. (hook/buckle/toploop piece, might need to increase for size 14 folk)
8.  24" thin webbing (stirrup cinch strap)



Padding:

a. Sew the 200d covering, good side in, into a tube with a 3/8" seam allowance
b. Sew one end shut with 3/8" allowance (center first seam before sewing)
c. Stuff the padding inside, it is a snug fit intentionally.  Set aside.





Hook/lower buckle:

a.  Thread the 18" webbing through the lower buckle, and over the bottom of the hook.
b.  Fiddle with the spacing till it looks right (I'll add a picture and a couple critical measurements).
c.  Bartack, or zig zag sew a ~1.25" joint with good stitche saturation.  Make sure there is proper tension to decently embed the stitches for decent abbrasion resistance.  Note:  Many opinions abound as to what is best for a pattern, my stitching handles bounce tests, do whatever you darn well please.
d.  Loop the top loose piece of webbing back and make a 1" joint.  Note it is critical to leave the 1" aread that will be sewn onto the 2" seatbelt webbing clear.  This section of stitching is largely overkill, but I was not happy with just a 1" joint.





Cuff:

a.  Line up the 1" cuff strap 2.5" from the end of the 2" seatbelt webbing (small overlap), and make a 1.25" joint.
b.  Thread the 1" cinch buckle (double check orientation!!!) onto the cuff strap.
c.  Fold the cuff strap back along the 2" seatbelt with minimal slop (but not super tight) left for the buckle to move.
d.  Secure the cuff strap with a 1" long box X, with lots of burly stitches where the hook will go.  Fold the strap back out of the way.
e.  Sew on the hook/lower buckle assembly with a 1"x1" joint.  Spend extra time arranging where the hook and cuff strap with sit.  DOUBLE CHECK LEFT VS. RIGHT orientation!!!  Don't make 2 right legs!!!
f.  Fold the cuff strap back into position and sew it down in a simple box outline with lots of burly stitches at both ends.  The far end of the box should be ~2" from the end of the seatbelt webbing (depending on how much adjustment rang you want).
g.  Sew the cuff onto the padding starting at the middle of one side, not the end (the padding and buckle shrink slightly, and your perfectly centered padding will be wonky...).  Put the open end on the strap side, not the buckle side.  Tuck the open end under as you sew around the end.  Wrestling in required in the hook area, though using a zipper foot helps a great deal.









Stirrup Cinch Strap:

a.  Mark the 1" thin webbing at 5", then 6" and 11" on opposite side with chalk.
b.  Thread the ladder lock on, and fold the end back (melted end on the outside of the foot!) to the 5" mark.
c.  Sew with a Box X, about 1.5" long.  Not a body weight joint, but make sure it won't fall apart mid-wall
d.  Fold 1/4" of the then over, then over again (three layers thick).  Stitch with a single row of back backstitched stitches.  This will keep the end from falling out of the ladder lock too easily once threaded through.






Stirrups:
a.  Feed the 20" supertape into the 17" rash guard.  Mush the 1" webbing into the center to give yourself at least 3.5" of super tape on each end for sewing.  Marking with chaclk at the 3" point is advised!
b.  Sew the two end of the super tap together with lots of burly zig sag fill lines.
c.  Slide the rash guard back over the joint with ~1/2" overlap.  The joing will sit at the outside of the foot with the lower mented end to the OUTSIDE of the foot.  Pay attention to the tracer orientation if you care about subtle cosmetics and don't make two right feet.  Fiddle before sewing!
d.  Sew both ends of the rash guard in place with a single back-tack row of stitches.
e.  Put the cinch strap onto the stirrup with the end of the box X matched up with the end of the now captive super tap joint.  Sew in place with three rows of stitches between the 6 and 11" marks, and extra beef at the ends.
f.  Mark the stirrup to cuff strap at 6" from the square end (not the 45 cut).  Fold over the stirrup and line the end up with the mark.
g.  Sew a 1.5" zig zag joint.
h.  Thread the strap into the double pass buckle and enjoy!





« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 10:46:33 am by Garbonzo »

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 10:38:40 pm »
Added pictures.

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 11:17:34 pm »
Thats a lot of pictures gonzo post the finished product too. How excatilly is that russian hook any more efficent than regular aiders and a quick draw? How do you use them?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 11:22:57 pm by hammok-soloer »

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 11:19:24 pm »
Garbonzo, even if I don't use the open source, thx for taking the time to put that shee together.

wish I had the patience to put stuff together like the Deuce, Fish and now Garbonzos of the world.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 08:50:12 am »
Thats a lot of pictures gonzo post the finished product too. How excatilly is that russian hook any more efficent than regular aiders and a quick draw? How do you use them?

It's not necessarily better, but another option.  If you can wade through the spew and posturing, Pete has posted a big old post on supertopo.com (http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=495312).  He also has a bunch of older drivel on rockclimbing.com.

Short version:

Slabs:  Normal aiders let you get higher via top stepping and hero looping, but you can do OK with russian aiders.  You can hook directly into gear and get close to the same height as normal aiders.  You will be more stable in the russian aiders.  You won't be using your daisy/fifi unless you do so out of habit.

Vertical:  Less strenuous to get into the top rings and be stable there than the second steps of aiders, which is about the best you can do without heroics.  Still a good chance that your daisy/fifi useage will be minimal, and often unnecessary.

Overhung:  Russian aiders are still straight forward to get high on a piece, it's basically a burly situp in effort, and not scary or balancy.  Getting into the top rings is a bit awkward, but not hard.  Your fifi/daisy is adding comfort to a strenuous maneuver, but you are not reefing on it to stay put like with normal aiders.  At this point getting higher than is hard with normal aiders depending on how overhung.  Getting into the second steps is damn hard and scary, and top stepping is brutal if possible at all.  Bolt ladders on WFLT's start for example are easy for me, my partner's arms flamed out and I moved 2-3x faster.

Cluster:  Opinions vary.  I have adjustable daisies with one aid tree on each daisy.  Compared to even the two aider method I find the cluster to be dramatically lessened.

Free transitions:  With aiders you usually gotta leave one behind unless you use fifi's on your aiders, or your last piece is a hook, or can stand in a sling to unclip and retrieve your crap.  With russian aiders I find it much less cumbersome to hook into the draw or gear's loop and easily rerack while standing there \ the aiders to go free (clipping the lead biner into a ring to tidy up everything).

If you are damn good with normal aiders you probably won't get super excited unless you try them out on overhung stuff.  If you are new to aiding, the learning curve on russian aiders is much easier.

Your mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:34:11 am by Garbonzo »

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 10:39:51 am »
Oh yeah, I like jugging with russian aiders better too.  With decent stirrups your feet will be totally captive and you'll never have to frig with your foot popping loose.  With my rig you have the choice of clipping into right above the knee (also useful for leg hauling light bags), or clipping into the stirrup, whichever you prefer.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 11:00:40 am »
Thats a lot of pictures gonzo post the finished product too. How excatilly is that russian hook any more efficent than regular aiders and a quick draw? How do you use them?

Here are some pics of some recent ones:






[img]

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 12:23:15 pm »
Looks like you know those things farily good.
About the daisy fifi thing-I don't use a fifi I use biner and a short sling hitched to belay loop. I never clip the daisy I rather the biner that my ladder is hanging on.  I use yates speed wall aiders. When jugging I put both ladders on and top step and slide one up as high as I can hang then grab the lower one, then climb to the top step agin. This way I move about seven feet each time.  Unless it is vertical then I just walk them up like a stair climber.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008, 11:23:00 am »
Looks like you know those things farily good.
About the daisy fifi thing-I don't use a fifi I use biner and a short sling hitched to belay loop. I never clip the daisy I rather the biner that my ladder is hanging on.  I use yates speed wall aiders. When jugging I put both ladders on and top step and slide one up as high as I can hang then grab the lower one, then climb to the top step agin. This way I move about seven feet each time.  Unless it is vertical then I just walk them up like a stair climber.

For jugging are you saying you are leapgrogging a jug/aider combo?  If I am hearing you right you climb your aider, move the other aider above it, climb it, then move the first above that?   Actually taking the jug off?  I'm confused.

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 09:35:29 pm »
No absoutly not. I will have to get back to you with an explination. I tryed to type one here and I confused my self. I have a video camera I will go jug up the tree tomorrow and record it then I can watch myself while typing.

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2008, 11:36:39 pm »
O.k. Gonzo here it is. I use a shoulder length sling on the top rope ladder and none on the bottem. I high step on the bottem ,and get 4-5 feet from the top. Get it? I hope so because nothing is more lonly than being half a mile up; while soloing in a hammok.

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2008, 08:03:37 pm »
Hey garbonzo are you saying that you don't use rope ladder style aiders?

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2008, 11:21:51 pm »
Hey garbonzo are you saying that you don't use rope ladder style aiders?

Nope, that's kind of the point.  I haven't stepped into a pair of normal aiders since ~2002 or so.  Ruskies or bust.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 09:37:53 am »
Thats not fair. ...RANT DELETED...

Sorry about that just venting off some self esteam. 

Do you use an adjustable daisy?

Yep, Adjustables, one Fish, one Yates (since the Stoners lost my other Fish and bought me Yates rather than dig through their crap).  Both have replacement straps with extra short girth hitching loops.

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2008, 06:42:38 pm »
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 06:46:37 pm by hammok-soloer »

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 01:38:07 am »
yea! Hey munjaganiganiganigalelaha. I thought that you were part of this. Were are you at Mungy.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 01:52:59 am by hammok-soloer »

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2008, 08:01:41 pm »
Just posting pics of a few more I made.  Two of these obviously used customer supplied hooks, so don't ask, even I can't get a pair of either of those.

For the Canadian Assassin (PTPP):


For John in Portland, OR:


For Peter Rhodes in the UK, who STIFFED me for $82:


For Roy in Goleta, CA:


For Paulina:


I have one more set to make for Healyje (IF HE EVER GETS ME FRICKING MEASUREMENTS!!!!!), then I'm done for the season.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 05:07:05 pm by Garbonzo »

Offline Feral Rat

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 04:45:17 pm »
so we know what the part that attaches to the leg looks like.  what does the other part look like?
Here's ta sweat in your eye

Offline Rags

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2008, 08:31:00 pm »
Fish has'em -  http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/newestnew.html

Bottom of the page.
Be Safe, Live Long, Climb Hard!

Rick

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2008, 10:34:05 am »
Here's the pic Rags is giving directions to.



There are a bunch of pics over on the old supertopo thread as well:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=495312

Or pics of "real" russian aiders:
http://krukonogi.com/Krukonogi.html


« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 01:07:24 pm by Garbonzo »

Offline hammock-soloer

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Re: Open Source Russian Aiders
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2008, 10:11:03 am »
Wow Garbonzo thats cool.