Author Topic: Help the mentorless  (Read 1302 times)

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Offline E_Rolls

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Help the mentorless
« on: January 27, 2009, 12:56:49 pm »
Howdy all,

Being the mentorless noob I have only been a lurker here gleaning info and enjoying the TR's.
Love the site and the members dedication to climbing rather than the dribble every where else.

So... on to the noobness.
I have been trying to work out my two aider system.

First, I really hate doing the single aider dance.
(even though this may be technically the most efficient)

Secondly, I am trying to avoid the cluster of four but see the advantage if I ever get to that level.

What I have come up with is:
1) place biner in piece
2) clip both aiders into biner
3) climb to 3rd step
4) fifi into biner on piece (fifi on short sling)
5) climb to 2nd sub step
6) if going to top, put one foot in top, attach adjustable fifi, unhook first fifi, step up and put other foot in top.

I've found this to be very comfortable and very fast for me.
With adjustable daisies or traditional daisies my ass at times is just too far out in space.
Why are the loops so huge on the ends? Trad and adjustables

I know I'm losing height by using a biner on the piece but I am progressing the same distance between pieces regardless No?
Except for the very first placement and maybe the last, is this a huge issue? Unless the piece needs a QD it's gonna need a biner anyway.

Have tried clipping one aider to piece and the second to biner on the first but don't care for the uneven steps.
Is this a better way? Do I just need to practice it more?

So far all I use daisies for is placing pro, resting if needed or down aiding.
Doing this all solo.  No issues there as most of my freeclimbing is solo.

Oh yeah, all my gear is fish.   Ladders and adj daises.
Thanks for any tidbits you can throw my way!


Offline mungeclimber

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Re: Help the mentorless
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 12:00:17 am »
adj yates daisy loop is big so you can get the ratchet thru the loop when you girth hitch.

"Have tried clipping one aider to piece and the second to biner on the first but don't care for the uneven steps.
Is this a better way? Do I just need to practice it more?"

not really, but don't worry about it. do what works for you. after you do one method that works long enough it will start to feel normal. 

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: Help the mentorless
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 08:26:50 pm »
Yo E--

Good stuff you're asking.

I think the two aider dogma is a reflection from those of us who went from 4 to 3 to 2 and are then trying to spare
others the initial steps.

Chris Mac and I both did what you are suggesting when we first went to two aiders. Stay with it. If you climb an amount
that you need that system to be comfortable and moving steady then stay with that way. I think we're just suggesting, and I
admit this is for people willing to do some regular aid climbing to learn the dance, that once you get the rhythm of two aiders
it just feels easy and smooth. And while it might not matter when you're doing your initial climbs up continuous cracks, the extra reach
that you get from clipping directly into the piece might be the difference between making 3 more moves to the belay(or rivet, or freeclimbing section) or 2.
(because you often topstep to reach one of those three).
Not that big of a deal but it does add up and habits stay with us.

Have fun with it.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 09:52:43 am by nanook »

Offline Paulhauser

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Re: Help the mentorless
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2009, 07:53:34 am »
I have been using the 2x2 aider method, for the lack of a better term.
I have 2 ladders on each carabiner, connected by daisies. in the past I used normal daisies, not I'm experimenting a Peztl adjustable sling on one pair. I guess it is what others call 4 aider method.
I have ladders similar to what Yates and others introduced some years ago. It is strange, I made myself these in '99 and come up the design myself. I my country everybody uses ladder with wood or alloy steps. One ladder per biner /fiif i was thinking these were cumbersome, so I sewn a ladder with a spreader bar. I came to realize later that others had the same idea. I by no means claim any 'breakthrough', I think it is only common sense. 

Other thing is that I use my fiifi on a short loop of tube webbing around the legloops of my harness.
When I place and move onto a placement my goal is to get as high as to be able to directly place the fiffi to the placement. this way the placement is in the level of my 'you know what' or a bit higher. This makes my position quite good for reaching as high as possible for the next one. I don't know if it is common or not. I'm sure I read it somewhere back then or somebody told me, but it is working. Before that i had my fiifi put on my tie-in loop, but this way i think we can loose 10-15 cm hight. This counts as meters in a pitch.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Help the mentorless
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 11:21:54 am »

  It sounds like you are not top stepping, and not getting full value from your daisy.  Chris mac over on supertopo posted up sections of a book he's working on, and linked to videos that are VERY useful.  A video is worth a thousand words.

He has other videos and sections too, worth reading and watching.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Help the mentorless
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 04:32:50 pm »
If you want to watch all the instructional video's that Chris McNarma has produced then click on the link below:

It will save you quite a bit of time!