Author Topic: new lowering out video w/ audio  (Read 1673 times)

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Offline Erik Sloan

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new lowering out video w/ audio
« on: April 29, 2009, 04:10:10 pm »
I reworked the old rig with some new material and sound.

http://vimeo.com/4388859

whaddyathink?

best
e

skully

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 09:55:37 pm »
Not bad, Nanook..I like it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 04:24:42 pm by skully »

Offline Mike.

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 10:00:28 am »
I think it looks really good, E.

May be worth mentioning: Before weighting the lower-out sling, be sure that sling's position will not trap the biner to be cleaned.

"Bight"


It's funny how, even with an experienced monkey demonstrating, this procedure looks somewhat complex. Nice job breaking it down. You make a good case for using a Gri to backup while cleaning.

Keep up the good work.

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Offline Raaf

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2009, 11:02:45 pm »
I also was impressed by the gri gri backup, tho I'd still be thinking of a chicken knot maybe way back from the start of the pitch. (Unless a lower out early in the pitch required the tail to be free.)

Would you go without chicken knots through the whole route when you use the gri gri as backup, or is that because you're on the first pitch off the ground?

Thanks,

J. Raaf

Offline Caz

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 12:57:32 am »
I just use a gri gri as my back up, it's there so why not use it. I also tie overhand knots behind that too every 20' or so. Every time I tie a new one I pull the lower knot up and clip it to my harness. That way there's less of a chance of the rope getting stuck and having to rap back in and un stick it.

I may be doing way too much work doing this but it's the way I learned and kinda stuck with it.


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Offline Rags

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 12:05:54 pm »
That's a great vid showing the nuts and bolts of it. I know that each climber comes to use systems that work best for them, and we should. That said, I would like to mention the one jug method of cleaning and lowering. I prefer one because it eliminates the some extra crap that I can so quickly turn into a clusterfuck. I had to use it to be sold, but now I like.

I'm not in the mood to do a detailed description, but the principles of it follow nanooks vid. The primary difference is you're not clipping to the fixed piece with your lower jug (or jugging on it). Use something like a daisy and fifi, or adjustable fifi or daisy. Then it's the same. Fifi up, unclip, take slack out at the gri, make the 4:1 loop, and lower. Simple.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. I also think Caz has it right by keeping the loose end of the rope close. There are times when it's not windy and the wall is clean, but preventing snags is good habit.

Thanks e
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Offline passthepitonspete

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 05:26:09 pm »
Great with the audio, Erik! 

- I think it is worth mentioning somewhere that this is sometimes called a 4:1 lower-out

- REALLY good call clipping the crab through the top of the jug, to help reduce the likelihood of the jug popping off the diagonalled rope.  Perhaps redundant with a Grigri, perhaps it will save your life.  Plenty have died from their jug popping off a tensioned diagonal rope, at least two on the fifth pitch of the Trip alone.

- you did mention that you can hold yourself with one hand on the free end of the rope, it might be worth inserting a sentence into the audio to say that when lowering out, you can just use the friction of your hand and glove, specifically that you don't need to put the free end of the 4:1 through any type of rappel device or munter hitch.  A lot of n00bs think you need to do this, and I think it's specifically worth mentioning that you don't.

- In your ideal situation of but a single lower-out sling, the potential for getting the rope stuck after completing the lower-out is almost nil.  But how many times do you come upon five or six ratty lower-out slings on a fixed pin?  One time, I ran the doubled rope through only 3 of the 5 or 6 slings, and when it came time to pull it through, it tangled.  Almost became an epic but it worked itself free.  So it might be worth mentioning that if there is more than one sling, you should clip them all, not just some.  Also that you ought to carry a small jacknife on your rack that you can use to cut off ratty tattered sun-weakened lower-out slings.

- I think in all situations - but especially the one above where there are multiple lower-out slings [which in my experience is the norm rather than the exception] you need to be VERY careful when releasing the free end of the rope afterwards, making sure there are no twists in it so it doesn't tangle in all the old slings

- Finally, your video just needs a nice little fifteen or twenty second concluding paragraph, perhaps with a zoomed out picture of the wall or something exciting and motivating. 

It's a really superb video, Erik - some first rate Wall Doctoring for sure!

Cheers,
Pete


Hey!  You sneaky bugger!  The rope and the lower-out sling changed colour halfway through the video.  Didn't think we'd notice, didja???
Dr. Piton says, "There is always a Better Way!"

Offline johnmac

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 06:03:15 pm »
Yes, the lower out sling does change color, black to red and back to black.

One question I had was your top (Blue) clamp setup. It looks like you have clipped your aider in to the biner hole with a plain biner and then clipped your teether into that biner user a locker. I do the absolute opposite. The locker goes into the clamp and then the aider is clipped in with another biner.

Other than that point the vid is amazing. Thanks for putting it together and sharing.

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: new lowering out video w/ audio
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 11:45:37 pm »
Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

No, I don't tie additional back up knots while jugging a pitch--your jugs constitute two point of contact, the grigri is a super solid third(second when you're clipped into the piece but that is pretty brief.

People have taken major falls on a grigri, so if you're diligent about keeping it pretty close while you jug you're incredibly safe in my opinion. Dan Osman, pioneered his early jumps onto a grigri. He and friends would jump off the Rostrum and fall 200' caught by a grigri backed up to a second grigri. So they're really good.

I do always stay tied into the end of the rope though. Can't be too safe that ways.

John--I clip my aiders directly into my jugs because I feel like the action gets compromised when I clip something like a locker to them first and then clip my aider/daisy biner. Then I use the locker biner that my jugs are always on on the back of my harness to clip the daisy up tight. This way that locker never accidently gets used for something else(sounds funny but it happens mucho) while you're hanging at the belay before you take your jugs off. Chris Mac's video for setting up jugs shows a pretty good alternative method keeping the locker on your top jug and then clipping your daisy in short to that locker and clipping the aider biner to that locker. That way he is able to clip into the belay without taking a jug off the rope. This is really a minor point--because I don't like the clickity-clank that jugging with two biners attached to a jug produces(especially on lower angled rock where your jugs contact the rock a lot) I still prefer my system. It doesn't seem to slow me down to be put on belay with the grigri while still hanging on my jugs if I'm going to lead, or just clipping my biners with the jugs still attached into the belay if I"m going to belay more. Apples and oranges I think.

Good points Pete. I would hope you would add a line in your post that you always carry a little knife on the back of your harness and cut off all but the good lower out sling that you're going to use(or your cleaner is going to use if you are the leader--it's easier for the leader because the piece can be unweighted). I remove old tat off every fixed piece I come too if I'm not going to use. Only takes a minute and feels great knowing the next person will not have to fight they're quickdraw biner through some manky cluster.

cheers
e