Author Topic: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML  (Read 19573 times)

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Offline YetAnotherDave

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2010, 02:50:34 pm »
A big thanks to everyone who helps with the restoration - while Beyer's mess is being cleaned up maybe the original Robbins chopping scars could be hidden as well?

I can't get to the valley til at least the fall this year - if the cleanup ends up happening then I'd love to help.  If I miss it I'll happily offer either beers or my services as a porter as thanks for those involved.

WOEML has been on my list since I read 'Downward Bound' as a kid.

Dave

Offline Caz

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2010, 03:06:29 pm »
I'm down for helping. Just let me know when...

I'll belay, drill, chip in cash for bolts, whatever...


Zac
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Offline offset

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #92 on: March 24, 2010, 03:18:32 pm »
+1

i'd love to be a part of some restoration project like this.  helping where i can.  i'll be in the valley mid may thru mid july...  STOKE!

Offline Slakkey

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #93 on: March 24, 2010, 04:35:19 pm »
I too find the WOEML worthy of a restoration project. As Mike points out it is better than people think and I feel often is the case people pass it up due to the abuse that has occurred. Bringing back to life would be a good thing.

Offline Mike.

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2010, 11:24:22 pm »
SuperTopo forum has an incredible thread up on WOEML:

http://supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1128872/Dawn-Wall-Original-Newspaper-Coverage


Many thanks to TripleS_in_EBs for posting it. And to ST.

Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2010, 09:58:29 am »
Right on guys! Sounds like a few of you are stoked to leave a Big Stone route in better condition than you found it. Again, I mention that better to say online that'll you do 'whatever' is to actually go out and practice placing(and if possible replacing) bolts. A solid third of the bolts out there on Yo walls are not well placed. Fatigue and inexperience often deteriorate what you can offer.

Choose a warmup route that needs a few bolts, like the pitch 5 ladder on Virginia, Electric Ladyland, ect.

I"m still psyched to help out anyway I can on whatever big wall climb or restoration project.

A rig like WEML would be approached best with a 'fix and replace' for a week or so, say 800'(the wall's too steep to make going further very feasible).

best
e

ps. I work at the Yosemite Lodge Bar, Wed-Sun. Live right here at the Lodge.

Offline lambone

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #96 on: March 27, 2010, 02:04:59 pm »
Hey Nanook

would you be willing to give a clinic in the boulders sometime?

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2010, 10:47:00 am »
Sure.....some friends just scored helmet cams so maybe I can shoot some video of getting down on the wall that would put stuff in good perspective.


Offline lambone

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2010, 01:45:47 pm »
I think that'd be great.

skully

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2010, 04:40:30 pm »
Man.....a helmet cam would be cool, almost too cool for school!

Offline BEMHO

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2010, 04:28:06 pm »
Good topic and good ideas here for WOEML. 

I would toss this out there to you for repair on WOEML.  Do you think a team of 4 could hit the wall do the leads, and repair what needs to be repaired on lead to make the pitch safe and passable, and then replace any anchors that need to be fixed.  I'm thinking that if the leader replaced the odd rivet to get to the anchor, and fixed a line or two the two people who were not leading that day could then jug and fix all the rivets and bolts that need to be replaced while following.  The second could jug a fixed line and leave the two lines for fixing the mess clipped to points where the fixers could still be in contact wit the wall to do the fixes.  This sytem would allow progress and still allow for repair and replacement without having to spend a month on the wall.  I'm all for helping with this as I have had many great experiences on EC that were paved by other that I feel I should do my part and help restore a classic.

I am seriously in disbelief that someone would go out of their way to smash and chop a route that was not their route.
I can remember the tales of Robbins but I had not heard of this other a hole and his destruction.

I don't know who the Beyer guy is but WTF  a hole. Robbins must have been out of his skull to think what he was doing was a good idea.  Not your route not your style to F'n Bad.  Don't climb it then. 

Offline offset

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2010, 04:54:37 pm »
4-man repair team...that sounds like a lot of beer to haul!!

Offline mhudon

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #102 on: April 09, 2010, 08:11:25 am »
If I had the time I'd be up for this. I've spent enough good times up on The Captain that I should spend some time up there giving back.
If anyone is making plans for this, put me down as a "maybe". At the very worst I'll donate some fresh roasted coffee for the crew.

Offline AstroArlo

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #103 on: April 10, 2010, 07:19:09 pm »
Remeber that Robbins started to chop the route, but was impressed with the difficulty and the location and rethought what he was doing - and stopped chopping bolts and just finished the climb.

Ironic that when Beyers chopped the route, he caused way more damage to the rock than the original climbers did...

skully

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #104 on: April 10, 2010, 08:39:22 pm »
Yeah, well, Beyer is another kind of guy, entirely.
FWIW, I have about 25  bolts layin' around......I'd throw a handful in the pot.
Though I'd like to see the original scars fixed, I understand that History needs scars.
I just want to make the route passable. Original holes, or their replacements.
Fix & hide the old holes.
That's what we did on Tribal.  Restoration. There's a certain responsibilty there, eh?
Diggin' the psyche to fix Beyers attempted route-icide.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 09:14:54 pm by skully »

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #105 on: April 15, 2010, 12:22:41 am »
Interesting idea BEHMO. Definitely talking about a little bit more. Again, I would suggest that you try any such setup on Virginia or something a lot more manageable, replacement-wise, before you try to tackle a rig like WEML.

some thoughts on the 4-man team you've described:

I guess the crux of your efficiency will be if you try to climb pitch by pitch, or just keep a leader going at all times. Noting the length of the route and how much stuff you'll have, the continuous leader seems pretty smart. If that's the case a 3-man team working a continuous leader keeps everyone pretty busy: 3rd guy jugs the haul line and belays and hauls(or leads) while the second cleans and the first keeps climbing. So a fourth person would further complicate and slow down the process, but would be bonus for the bolt replacement.

Most anchors should have two 3/8" bolts if you follow CMac's linking topo, with just a belay or two where Beyer chopped and will need some help.

So the 4th could work at the belay and then start down the top of the pitch while the cleaner replaced some rivets while cleaning. Remember that you'll need the rope clipped through as many pieces as possible to keep the cleaner/bolter into the rock so that they can drill easily. Where that is not feasible the cleaner will have to jug up, clip some pro, and then lower down to the replacement spot.

Cool idea. Sounds pretty burly hard but mega rewarding. Being in good wall shape will be key--remember Lambone's story about being totally worked replacing one little rivet.

Let's keep this dialogue goin.
many cheers
e

Offline Caz

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #106 on: April 15, 2010, 02:32:01 am »
How many holes are we talking just to get the thing climbable again? I know that most every bolt and rivet needs to be replaced at some point, but what about just getting the belays back to being useable and doing the route without a stick clip? Did JB destroy like 3 or 4 bolt ladders and a ton of anchors or was it like 8 to 10 bolts/rivets? I mean there's close to 140 X's on the topo just on lead. That's not including any belays. There's another 50 belay bolts and more false belays... So this sounds like over 200 holes! Now that I'm really thinking about it, that's a lot of pounding!

Let's say 20 minutes a hole, for someone that is quick. We're talking close to 70 hours of just pounding!


Now that I think of it that was, there is no way to do this in one push!


Zac
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Offline slabbyd

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #107 on: April 15, 2010, 09:58:13 am »
Didn't Harding do it in a .....28?... day push.   And he didn't even have any holes to start with.    Just being them shitty hammocks and a load of cheap wine!

Offline YetAnotherDave

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #108 on: April 15, 2010, 10:54:04 am »
Is it all bolts/rivets that got butchered, or are there dowels in those sections too?

How would one pull a wrecked dowel to replace it?  Easy-out?  Vice-grips and a funkness? 

Offline offset

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #109 on: April 15, 2010, 10:59:12 am »
i've got a box of 100 1/4 x 1.25 split drives...  got em for REAL cheap.  if some of those can be of use for this project...  well.. i don't need 100, i know that. 

Offline mhudon

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #110 on: April 15, 2010, 11:13:01 am »
I wish I had the time to work on this. I'd like to do the original start also.

Offline xtrmecat

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #111 on: April 15, 2010, 11:13:44 am »
  I have some extra time to contribute to this little project. ( note sarcasm, not little at all) I have always been told the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. I also have an idea to pull rivets and dowels. Hand drilled and then a slide hammer. Are any of the dowels aluminum??? If so I can probably do one of those by hand in the time it takes to funk a bad head and fix the mess while following. I would be willing to get a start in my down days next month. It would be nice to have a helper/leader to fix a couple/few pitches.

  Where does the damage start, at the beginning, mid route, where? At the second belay where my topo shows the first bolts? I can contribute labor and time, or serve an apprenticeship for one of the better climbers here, and haul and belay, and do what I can. This offer is not a whim, but something I am serious about. I just don't have too much that I can contribute alone, that's all.

  Bob

Offline BEMHO

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #112 on: April 15, 2010, 02:52:36 pm »
Nanook,

Hey just an FYi "Pain Don't Hurt"  and if i am going to spend a week or more fixing a route this is the one I want to fix.

It is my understanding that not every pitch is in need only the Robbins debacle and that Beyer aholes bi polar smash fest needs fixing.

It has over 300 holes and if you need to fix 100 of those then were talking about hard work.  The three man is nice and I have done several three man walls.  This however is a 4 man project.  I say that knowing what it takes to drill that much is going to eat up a ton of bits and some serious muscle power.  If four guys shared that with the leads and hauls they should stil have something left for the party at the top. 

I am a firm believer in using a bit for perhaps 4 holes and then tossing it.  Once the bit has been used more than that the drilling gets harder. The bit would still be good for a power unit, but for hand drilling you would be wasting time.

The leader leads the second jugs and hauls and then Third jugs helps haul and raps to fix what they can and the 4th fixes as he cleans.  The cleaner would need to have a tag line so he can send gear up to the leader.  I bet your talking maybe getting in 3 pitches a day with fixing taking place.  On pitches where there was not a bunch to fix you could make some progress.  Drilling 1/4 inch holes for rivets is not that big of a deal to me  it's when you start drilling 3/8ths that you get wasted.  The new rivet needs to go in first then pull the old crap and patch the mess.  If the team worked together and everyone had the time to spend up there then the route could be returned to form in great shape with a sense of community accomplishent.  The fact is that no matter what it should be fixed.  Too much time has passed and the time has come to fix this classic.

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #113 on: April 15, 2010, 04:34:43 pm »
Big job for sure.  In terms of adding holes, Most rivets can be pulled and the original hole should be drilled out.  As far as dowels go, most have to be chopped and patched thus requiring a new hole.  Or if your lucky, banging them back and forth then grabbing with a vice grips and yarding out.  You can reuse those holes, provided you did not blow out the hole.  Works ok some of the time, but worth trying either way.

If this type of overhaul is going to happen, much thought needs to go in to minimizing the new hole count.  This of course takes the the same amount of time, pull, drill, place.

If not your talking about drilling tons of new holes with will surely take a lot longer.  Not to mention the time patching will take when you add it all up.


Offline mhudon

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2010, 09:09:24 pm »
Have most, any or all of the original rivets and bolts above the Tower Start entrance been replaced? Is that a goal for the route or is replacing the chopped rivets and bolts and upgrading the anchors the goal?

Offline lambone

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2010, 11:27:16 pm »
I think restoring the PO in honor of Jim B would be a better project. But that's just my opinion. I mean they are both equaly classic climbs, but from the ground the PO is a more natural lookin' line, imho.

Tons of timebombs on the PO, at least the ones I saw above SS. Hopefully they can both happen. I'll help in anyway I can (labor, hardware) if the timing works out with my trip.

I sorta feel like it's up to the next generation to decide what happens with WMEL. But maybe that's just stupid... I dunno. Either way if the route is stripped it should be patched and erased, not just smashed in....that's just mean and gross.

Offline Caz

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #116 on: April 15, 2010, 11:44:03 pm »
If your going to restore PO you should talk to Jim. I know he wasn't happy with what happened to some of his other routes. I had a long conversation with him about Aquarian Wall...
I do this for fun...

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #117 on: April 16, 2010, 12:53:33 am »
Yo Gang,

Nice psyche!

BEHMO: I liked everything you said, was just trying to flesh it out more. Not sure I follow your thoughts on second cleaning/hauling and then 2 more people getting into the mix, but no doubt the big Stone will take care of the details. You're right, 4 psyched and fit partners would make such a project very feasible. I agree that 3 pitches a day sounds reasonable. You know 3 other psyched/fit/experienced folks with 8 days to spare? Right on!

I'll be here for ground support; and the offer to fix the first pitch still stands. I was up the other day and checked it out--looks very doable to swing over from the Space anchor.

best
e

Offline tomtom

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #118 on: April 16, 2010, 07:08:58 am »
What is the 'official' rivet of choice these days anyway?

A picture and part number would be appreciated.

Offline Slakkey

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Re: let's talk Mescalito and WOEML
« Reply #119 on: April 16, 2010, 08:41:52 am »
I think it is important that everyone who is and are willing to help on this keep each other informed as to when and what they plan to do. It appears that several of us are planning on being in the valley in May through June so no doubt a good time to possibly get the project accomplished. Based on the estimated amount of work probably a good thing to have a couple of bodies on the ground for back up as well.

Been awhile since I have been up SS and PO but sounds like another project in the works as well.