Author Topic: New Yosemite Bigwall guides  (Read 17750 times)

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Offline Erik Sloan

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New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« on: January 29, 2010, 03:08:06 pm »
Yo Gang,

I'm putting together the maps to put out a Yosemite Bigwall Select and eventually a Yosemite Bigwall Complete guidebooks.

I love the Supertopo guidebook format but for know I feel it doesn't offer enough routes considering there are no more complete guidebooks in print. (I contacted Don Reid and he doesn't have any timeline for updating his book(is actually still trying to get his updated free book, many years complete, to print), and agreed that he has been quite removed from the Yo bigwall scene for some time).

Many of you have already emailed me updates, rare topos, ect. so please keep them coming. Thought it would be great to have a thread where everyone could sound off about what they hoped to see in the future guides.

many cheers
e

Offline offset

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 03:18:11 pm »
'nook...

good luck on putting together the book. 

one thing i like about the supertopo is how it compares routes by difficulty.. (ie route x is slightly more difficult than 'a' but easier than 'b')...   what keeps me up at night tho is wondering what part of the 'difficulty' is attributed to effort and what part of the 'difficulty' is attributed to actual hard climbing.    what about having a distinct indicator for effort and one for difficulty/danger. 

just a thought from a wallin' n00b (both in effort and difficulty).


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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 05:04:25 pm »
A point to remember, maybe, Nanook, is to preserve some mystery somehow.
It's really satisfying to put that squiggle on the page in context on the stone.
Vagueness is ok. I don't need too many details.
I'll work it out.

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 06:35:19 pm »
werd, I really want to be able to emulate the campfire situation, where by discussion, I can get a sense of whether I'm going to die by going up on a route I'm not mentally, skillfully, physically ready for.

but I don't want to spoil the surprise, and yet I like being able to know what special gear I need so that I'm not bringing the kitchen sink.

I think I mentioned this before in the 'back cleaning' thread, but an indication of how much back cleaning is normal for the gear list is helpful too.  e.g. A1 backcleaning can be expected if bringing a free rack, rather than a set of say 'triples' in #2 camalots' 

then again, maybe my ignorance is exposed by virtue of the question.  meh, just thoughts. I'll think about this some more.

either way, spreading out folks off the trades would be awesome and is a laudable goal.


thx,
M

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 11:56:37 pm »
Thanks guys, great suggestions.

I like the route comparisons too.

As far as preserving the fun/adventure/mystery of the climb--the books I"ll be producing will be map-only style, with all the other stuff: intro, comparison, history, photo gallery, trip reports provided on the website(yosemitebigwall.com)so it will be easier than ever to either keep it vague or read every little detail about the climb.

keep it comin! And please send updates/corrections/new topos to erik_sloan@hotmail.com

many cheers
e

Offline Caz

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 11:01:32 am »
One thing I like about the Super Topo is the PDF. I like to size and print the page I want to bring up with me. I bought both the book and PDF...

 Also, maybe update the iron for routes. Seems like every TR I read says something about the topo having too much iron on it...

Thanks for doing this nook! I'm sure it's gonna be great. god luck!


Zac
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skully

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 04:58:31 pm »
Maybe talk to Donny Reid. That dude is Wise.
Too many details is bad because it draws troo many flies.
Think of flies......They don't know how many will fail(die).
Make it seem too easy, draw flies.
I HATE climbing past a bailing party. I've BEEN the bailing party.
Sux either way. We need to keep SOME folks on the ground.
It's where THEY live.
I hope your guide is cool & a rousing success.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 05:56:33 pm by skully »

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 08:47:08 am »
Ah Cap'en, it's been too long for ya I fear.
There are so many jems in the Queen's crown you need never stand in line to pluck.

Get down here and get sum!

Definitely a key feature for me of the new guides will be every topo being available as a free downloadable pdf on the website.

No one has mentioned any routes they hope to see in the select guide? The only bigwall guidebook currently available, Chris and my Supertopo book, contains just 40 something out of 450 climbs.

What direction should the Select guide take? (obviously the comprehensive one will be that)

cheers
e

Offline johnmac

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2010, 09:27:59 am »
Eric

Thanks for taking up this challenge. I'm really looking forward to it!

I like being able to compare routes like in the sp guides as well. With purchase of the guidebook, being able to download pdf files or topos would be great.

Please try to really emphasize routes that have gone clean as well. History is very important and an area that many guide books fail at. If you capture the history and imagination of the first climbers then you're have a big winner on your hand.

Safety and technical stuff doesn't need to be included, it's a guide book not a "how to climb big walls book.

Also, the topos don't need to be "super detailed", as I've often found that some of this information is either out of date or incorrect. Choose a nice blend between straight lines and supertopo!

Cheers

John

Offline Slakkey

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2010, 10:21:01 am »
Erik,

I too look forward to this effort of yours. I always like seeing different perspectives when it comes to routes. Agree a more comprehensive guide is sort of needed in that there are so many routes that either the beta is some what sketchy or the Topo etc. is not all that clear. It would be nice to see that put into a little more detail. As for what John said I agree that although more than likely some sort of disclaimer will be needed the people that more or less will be interested in a more in depth guide book will be ones that have already climbed at least one or more Big Walls so keeping it more focused on the Tops and info on the climbs is what will make this appealing.

As for the Big Wall select well to some extent one could say that the current ST Guide sort of already fits this niche however, if the focus on this is more or less aimed at climbers who again have already done one or more walls then you could swap out certain climbs in favor of others that might be of more interest for someone who has already put a Big Wall or two under their harness so to speak. For example would one rather see more beta on Sunkist vs Flight of the Albatross
 since the Albatross is already covered in the ST guide. etc.


Offline Caz

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2010, 08:20:33 pm »
How about routes on other formations?

Might be nice to get more routes that have a long approach...


Zac
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Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2010, 08:33:20 pm »
Nice suggestions guys. Thanks.

Map-style books will not be limiting in their ability to reach all users, because there will be a companion website with far more info than was ever printed in a Yosemite guidebook. Yes, the routes will come alive with audio clips of Faist interviews, scans of articles written about them, as well as photo galleries and trip report sections for those looking for more info or to reminisce after the climb.

Definitely going to get some more formations in the mix for the Select book.

Keep it comin!

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 01:16:55 pm »
The problem I see is that many of the obscure Grade V's are not "Climbable" by most parties.  higher spire routes, panorama cliff, etc...

Old hardware, bad topo's etc...

Last thing you want is newbs not bringing their 1/4 inch nuts, bolt kits heads etc...

If they show up in the Taco book, Oh man!

Outside of that it seems like a novel idea yet some consideration to the areas and routes need to be taken with more than a grain of salt.

Many of the older less repeated routes are for traveled teams.  How many people know how to head these days?  A few friends of mine who have many obscure routes in the valley told me that most (of theirs) will need repair/replacement.

Love without anger... Bad bolts at anchors, bad rivets, and the list goes on.

Good luck.

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2010, 11:13:33 pm »
Thanks.

Yeah, I hear ya Mucci that many of the old grade V's are probably VI's--but the bros always rise to the occasion, right? That's sure been my experience of being constantly blown away with what Le Cap can do with a little psyche.

Keep em comin!

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2010, 11:36:54 pm »
I am all for the psych, I in no way mean to downgrade the effort put forth by less experienced teams.  It's one thing to get your chops at the tower on or the column like so many have, but offering "Obscure routes" in that format takes away from the experience of learning the art.

Taking the effort to learn the ropes and search for your style of wall is all part of the game.  Obscure routes are just that.  Those who seek shall find.  It's all on the web, and a few venture out beyond the printed topos.

Let's face it, if you venture out to the forgotten gems, you got a big job ahead of you.  Tons of modern A3 that doesn't get done.

I commend the effort, which will certainly be monumental.

Keep up the good work E,

Mucci

Offline mungeclimber

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2010, 12:01:17 am »
Nanook, after helping be a knucklehead editor or just provide info, one thing you got to remember as an author, as you prolly already known, is that you can't please everyone.  When the naysayers start ranting, just keep it all in stride and work with those things that need the work.  You'll do a solid job.


I'd like to know about Bananna Rama. EK suggested the wall is nasty for the black lichen that flies off when scrubbed and now having hiked along the trail above it, I can't help but think about tourists chucking stuff off. I'm just not that familiar with it though...

Bunnell got any long on it?

Offline scottydo

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2010, 12:04:28 am »
One thing I like about some of those Big Wall topos is the free climbing grade for each pitch. I'm thinking those who free climb alot like to see that too. :)

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2010, 09:48:38 am »
werd for the free ratings. They're also great for when you're eating shit aiding the pitch, so you're partner can chuckle and say, 'maybe 5.11+,not 5.11?'

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2010, 09:53:52 am »
Munge-

My good friend Bosque did that one, Said there was some hard nailing on it.  I think it got repeated in the late 80's If I remember correctly.

They said they got really dirty.

Ditto on the Free ratings.

Offline passthepitonspete

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2010, 10:28:59 pm »
Lots and lots and lots of routes!  Especially ones not published elsewhere.  Updated topos on routes available only in the Reid guide.  Info on what routes have decent fixed anchors, and which ones need replacing. 

Another good thing would be to promote the more obscure and difficult to reach walls.  And to have *really* detailed beta and topo maps describing the approaches and descent.  I have never climbed Watkins or at the Falls Wall because my perception is that the approaches are really difficult.  Are they?  Inquiring minds want to know.   What about the Sentinel?  How about a really really good description of how to climb the Death Slabs up to Half Dome, that is precise and accurate and that you can follow with no fear of getting lost?
Dr. Piton says, "There is always a Better Way!"

skully

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2010, 07:55:04 am »
Pete, that's how we weed out the weak and/or stupid.
It's pretty easy.

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2010, 04:44:01 pm »
Thanks guys. Keep it coming.

I hear ya Pete. Many more routes comin, for sure.

To keep the stoke factor high I'll start posting up new topos as I get them uploaded. Remember, these are early drafts so please send me feedback to erik_sloan@hotmail.com

Here's the T.Trip/Virginia rig:

http://cid-ac7b92e4a1d5c148.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Tangerine%20Trip%20and%20Virginia%20t.pdf

many cheers,
e

Offline Caz

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2010, 05:02:37 pm »
That Topo looks great Nook!
I do this for fun...

Offline Raaf

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2010, 06:09:45 pm »
Man that's a good topo. Sweet!

Offline Slakkey

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2010, 09:21:54 am »
Nice Topo for sure. Erik, Just curious what program do you use to draw them on?

Offline Erik Sloan

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2010, 09:49:38 am »
Cheers bros. The maps are made in Adobe Illustrator, though I'm anxious to check out that new software that was posted on ST recently.

Here's the Prow/Ten Days After.

http://cid-ac7b92e4a1d5c148.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Prow%20%5E0%20Ten%20Days%20After-3.pdf?sa=804620873

I know it muddles things a little to have two routes on one page, so I'll give ya my thoughts:

1. If it's stormin and you have to rap the Prow from Ten Days, handy to have the full topo.
2. these routes can be packed, the 2fer provides some options
3. fun to check out what the bros next to ya are sending
4. as we all get more comfortable in the digital sphere it'll be no problem to just erase parts of a topo you don't want on there before you print it out

Offline YetAnotherDave

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2010, 10:27:29 am »
I like having both - it makes it more obvious which features are off-route (I get lost easily)

those topos look great!

Offline Mike.

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2010, 10:34:08 am »
Nice topos, just like SuperTopos. Repurposing the graphics I designed for Chris' books. Just swap out a typeface and voila, call it yours.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2010, 12:08:56 pm »
I like the topos alot.

Now, what would the chances be of adding some color to them?  I think the multiple colors of the ST topos really makes details stick out.  Don't get me wrong, its not at all necessary, but it really does look nice, easy on the eyes, helps the brain (my brain) sort info when I am looking for something specific etc.

Obviously that is a 'topo luxury', but hey, if you are trying for the best product, I think that helps.   

I am hoping to test out one of these topos this weekend and into next week with this nice weather window we have!!



Eric - I think Jerry Miller is going to be cruising to the valley this weekend, he said he would give you a shout!

Offline Slakkey

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Re: New Yosemite Bigwall guides
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2010, 06:57:25 pm »
I also like the side by side routes, as for the color enhancement well my guess is that might come down to cost sure the color is nice but BW works just fine as well. Erik, not quite sure what Topo Program that was posted on ST but I did run across one called Betaflash. I have not used Adobe Illistrator but use CAD  / Rendering programs for my business and the Topo program is somewhat similar to a simple CAD program. I have not had a lot of time with it but, it does not seem all that difficult to use. The Adobe ones look great so it really just comes down to what works best for you. The same hold true with CAD