Author Topic: Far end hauling  (Read 10382 times)

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Offline GoMZ

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Far end hauling
« on: May 28, 2006, 06:03:08 pm »
Does anyone have a picture or illustration of a far end hauling system?

Steve

Offline syrinx

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Far end hauling
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2006, 01:14:49 pm »
Here is some info I found. I have never done this myself so I cannot comment on the commentary. This is photo of PTPP's setup. Click the photo to see a more detailed explaination. (The link above and the photo go to different sources)




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Offline lunchbox

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Far end hauling
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 10:35:58 pm »
i use a far end hauler at work alot.  it pretty easy to set up and could save you loads of hassels while soloing.  

lets see if i can do it justice.

you'll need:
to fix you haul line. (rig to haul from the high anchor just like normal)
then:
suspend your pig, via a pro or mini traxion, from the fixed haul line.  tie the  pig in using the slack from the back side of the the traxion.

if rigged correctly you'll be able to haul from the pigs end of the haul line. the pig moves up the fixed line.  works great if it gets stuck and you have to rap down to free them.  

you can rig a 2:1 with the slack from the haul line by using a jumar and another pulley on the haul line.  

i might be able to post pixs if this is too confusing.

i under stand it less now having read my own post.

Offline GoMZ

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Far end hauling
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 04:48:35 am »
Thanks guys, I think I have a good idea of how to set this up.  I'm going practice setting this up in the next couple of days. I will let you know how it goes.

Steve

Offline the_dude

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Far end hauling
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2006, 05:26:29 pm »
This set up can definitely be a life saver (ie huge time safe) when soloing. Keeps the frustration factor down a bit.

Offline scottydo

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2009, 03:23:02 am »
Can somebody post some pictures of how the far end hauling system works? I've been searching around the different forums and a lot of the pictures I can't view for some reason. I think I understand how it works, but some pictures would really clear things up. Thanks in advance.

Offline scottydo

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2009, 03:46:51 am »
Never mind, I think I found a good pic. Let me know if this is what you all use as a Far end haul set up. As an aspiring Big Wall climber I am trying to learn all this so i can go practice it.

the start


once it's set up


Then my question is: Once you start hauling with this do you untie that haul line back up knot connected to the locker below the swivel? (this would make sense to me if i'm picturing things correctly) Thanks to you experienced guys helping us who want to learn.

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 06:15:05 am »
If I've got your setup, correct, that would work.
Be Sure you are backed up on another line!!!

Offline johnmac

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 08:48:50 am »
Hey, they're my pictures....

I've used by set up many times and it works very well. A lot better than rapping down to unstick the pig, and getting back to the anchor and still not being able to haul... 

Always back up the haul line to the bag. in the picture I have the haul line tied into the lower biner but some people have told me that it should be tied into the biner where the mini trax is located. The reason for this is if the bag starts to spin the rope could get badly messed up. However, I haven't seen this yet. I've tried it both ways.


Offline KevinW

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 05:27:55 pm »
Between lunchbox's description and the photo's, I don't think you could explain it better. I've read other threads on this topic that confused the hell out of me, and I already knew how to do it!

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2009, 06:07:41 pm »
wish i would have known how to set up a far end hauler on the 'haul bag eating flake' pitch 10 of the Prow.  Would have saved me a lot of hassel.  I am going to figure this out later and get it dialed.

Offline scottydo

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2009, 01:57:13 am »
Hey, they're my pictures....

I've used by set up many times and it works very well. A lot better than rapping down to unstick the pig, and getting back to the anchor and still not being able to haul... 

Always back up the haul line to the bag. in the picture I have the haul line tied into the lower biner but some people have told me that it should be tied into the biner where the mini trax is located. The reason for this is if the bag starts to spin the rope could get badly messed up. However, I haven't seen this yet. I've tried it both ways.



yeah, I found your pictures after my first post. They actually cleared a lot of things up for me. Quick question though: What's the point of having the swivel if your haul line is tied in as a back up to the biner below it? I know that the back up is key, but doesn't that negate the usefullness of the swivel? Thanks again.

Offline Garbonzo

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 09:18:17 am »
Hoipolloi,

  We avoided the that flake through unintentional station skipping.  If you link pitch 9 and 2/3 of P10 you get to a nice stance for a natural anchor (takes ~#0.5-#1 stuff).  That anchor is directly above the P8 anchors.  My haul line was still stuck in the haul bag eating flake, but I was able to easily lower down on my gri-gri, flip it out, and just walk bag to the anchor (gri-gri assisted, but no jugs needed).  Off topic, but boy did I feel lucky for accidentally missing P9's anchor.

Offline johnmac

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2009, 11:16:12 am »
Regarding the location of the tied off rope below the sviwel....

I screwed up in my demo. It should be above the swivel.  I have another picture out there that shows how it should be set up with the rope tied off above the swivel.

Offline scottydo

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 12:04:34 am »
Regarding the location of the tied off rope below the sviwel....

I screwed up in my demo. It should be above the swivel.  I have another picture out there that shows how it should be set up with the rope tied off above the swivel.

That makes more sense. Thanks!

skully

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 08:07:18 pm »
I've found that, if ya have enough cords, you can invent onsite, too, as it were.
When the bag is stuck, it quickly becomes "far end hauling".
Soloin', after all, requires inventfullness.(is that a word?)

Offline passthepitonspete

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2009, 05:31:31 pm »
OK, so you guys figured out the backup needs to go ABOVE the swivel.  Sheesh. 

And yes, you untie the backup when you Far End Haul!  Go try it at your local crag with a bag of rocks - it's easy.
Dr. Piton says, "There is always a Better Way!"

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 11:50:32 pm »
I am bumping this because I remember that recently Mark was asking about Far-End Hauling over on ST.


Anyone have some good photos, diagrams and/or descriptions of setting up a far end haul on a weighted pig?  I think this is an important skill I need to know how to employ, both for rescuing the pig, and possibly a good thing to know for rescuing a partner in a bad situation, no?

Offline mhudon

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2010, 09:22:43 am »
I got it figured out, hoipolloi, thanks.

I tried to use a Ropeman and a Relvover biner as the top pulley and rope grab set up. The ropeman worked fine but I found the Revolver was too inefficient to be of any help with the 300 pounds I was trying to haul. I have a real nice, SMC mini rescue pulley that I used instead. Great pulley, light and very efficient. Buy it here: http://tinyurl.com/yc359t5
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 09:28:59 am by mhudon »

Offline johnmac

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2010, 07:34:55 pm »
300 Pounds... Wow that's a lot of days ... Make sure you read the book I sent you. It has a nice section on hauling.

The far end system is a life saver when soloing. I always regret when I don't set it up BEFORE I leave the ground.


Offline mhudon

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2010, 08:19:42 pm »
It was a test to see if I could do it.

With a 2:1 it wasn't too hard. I'm figuring 250 pounds at the start of Grape Race. 90 pounds of water.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:21:22 pm by mhudon »

miwuksurfer

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2010, 02:39:31 pm »
Question: To employ a far-end haul setup after bags are stuck on a traditionally set-up haul, would you be required to set up the far-end haul on a second line?  (ie: no far-end haul on weighted line).  Does that make sense?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 02:46:35 pm by miwuksurfer »

Offline mhudon

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 02:45:27 pm »
If you know how to set up Chongo's 2:1 system, setting it up just above the haul bag while there is weight on the bag would be easy and would work the same way.

miwuksurfer

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2010, 02:57:20 pm »
Of course.  That makes sense.  I guess if you didn't have a couple spare pulleys you could just clean your haul setup, tying it off at the anchor and just reset a 2:1 at the bag.  Thanks, MH.

Offline mhudon

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2010, 03:12:21 pm »
When I was doing my 300 pound test haul I found that a Revolver biner didn't quite work as a pulley. Maybe with less weight it would work fine although I don't know where that line is.

Offline hoipolloi

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2010, 12:48:57 pm »
Does anyone have a better photo of the Far End Haul setup?  I feel like I want to have a better grasp on this technique before launching on any big solo projects...

I understand it, more or less, but would love to see a few photos...


Thanks...


EDIT:


So in this description:

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/big_wall_and_aid_climbing/doctor_doctor_im_still_a_bit_confused_about_the_far_end_hauler/106078446

PTPP says he sets up the hauler before the pitch when he is soloing.  To me, this doesn't really seem necessary, unless you high index of suspicion the bag will get stuck.  Lets say you think its going to be fine to haul from the top...  What do you guys think?


Second EDIT:

So, if you choose not to pre-set the far end haul.  One could use a piece of cordage, clip it to the pig, run it up to a prussik and a single pully on the haul line to create a 1:1 far end haul, correct?  How might you get the far end haul set up, on the fly, as a 2:1 ?  It would be easier to have 2 pullies, and just make a 3:1, right?

maybe I can draw a picture of my thoughts, to make sure they are correct.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 01:04:58 pm by hoipolloi »

Offline johnmac

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2010, 02:22:57 pm »
I have some pictures at home I can post up tonight.

I've used the far end several times and it's been a life saver.


Simple far end setup prior to leaving the ground.





far end set up for hauling form the far end of the rope, when bag is stuck, etc. This one has swivel, but its not worth the hassle.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 02:39:29 pm by johnmac »

Offline mhudon

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2010, 10:15:27 pm »
3 to 1 at the top anchor.


3 to 1 Far End Hauling



75 to 1 (although pulling 75 inches of rope to gain 1 inch seems like a bit much ;-))

« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 10:18:27 pm by mhudon »

Offline Caz

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2010, 10:27:44 pm »
You bringing up a car with you, using that 75 to 1? ;)~
I do this for fun...

Offline mhudon

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Re: Far end hauling
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2010, 09:02:37 am »
If you took the rope coming out of the Mini-Trax in the second photo, tied a knot in it and clipped the bottom of the pulley setup to it you would change the whole rig to a 6 to 1.

Once you really understand pulleys and mechanical advantage, you can really come up with some simple systems that can make your big wall life a lot easier.