Author Topic: swivel me pigs?  (Read 1853 times)

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Offline Wade Icey

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swivel me pigs?
« on: June 20, 2010, 04:38:59 pm »
worth it's weight on low angle hauling?
any pros and cons from the bros?
mine is pristine, unused since most of my walls have been steep.
(might have been rejected as too heavy also).
any thoughts on rigging it?
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

-Hunter S. Thompson

Offline johnmac

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 05:01:54 pm »
If there is a lot of lowering out I like have a swivel. However, if it is pretty much straight up and down, I don't bother since it just adds more complexity and potential weak points to the system.

Offline mhudon

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 05:43:15 pm »
On my recent solo I wanted to have as many options available to me as possible. Since I haul my bags side by side they didn't roll on the lower angle lower outs but I didn't want to ever have the ropes all twisted up on the top of the bags and their tie ins. The weight is a small price to pay for its convenience.

Offline kindredlion

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 10:29:18 pm »
I second mhudon - worth the weight for convenience, and CF management..  (any amount of CF avoidance as long as its stream lined and not time consuming is worth it in my book)

The Rigging is straight forward for one pig, and complexity varies for more than one.. 

For two or three pigs, it depends if you want your pigs side by side (solo or with partner and double ledge) This is straight forward and can be done a myriad of uncomplex ways.

Or if you want your pigs up and down (team of any number involving two ledges in two story condo mode - where each pig will sit next to its ledge dweller and ledge for less tagging while in ledges) This should be planned out before blasting off....  You can use a length of climbing line with an eight (or nine) on a bite clipped to the Big F'in Locker (clipped to the swivel) this line can be used to tie the lower ledge and lower pig(s) to sit next to one another - and [key here] fall UNDER the top pig..  if you are rigging this way - its best to have all the lower level stuff be fully a foot or more under the bottom of the higher level pigs to keep your load from being as wide as a bus, and more long and streamlined like a train..  [read:junkshow]

Would love to elaborate more with better english and less parentheses to paint the mental picture a prettier shade of reality...  Maybe I will when I'm not in a food coma from eating so much ice cream ;)p
(gotta get me calcium to heal me bones yarg!)

take air,
adam

Offline *Mucci*

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 10:53:19 pm »
Man, swivels are where it's at!

If going big (2 pigs) side by side, I like to tie em in with a piece of 10mm static (8 foot piece).  I tie one end to one bag, the other to the #2 bag.  Then just tie a 8 on a bight to equalize the pigs. 

Swilvel goes on the 10mm static attached to pigs, under the haul line attachment.

Each piggy gets a adj daisy ( or cord for docking via munt/mule)


Swivels have a place at the belay as well I would assume?

A Protrax seems like a good candidate for adding a swivel no?


Offline kindredlion

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 11:10:57 am »
Hey Mucci!


The 10mm static is exactly what I'm talking about.. Rigged just like you say..

as far as each pig getting a docking tether or adj daisy, I agree, but more for convenience and taming the piiiigs  iiiiiin  spaaaaaace than for the actual docking/lower outs...  I prefer to put the docking tether (just the one)  at the main haul Big F'in Locker tied via Muntner/Mule as you describe..    (I also use  a longer than needed haul line, with the 15-30ft of extra tail as said docking tether/lower out line - depends how long your haul and lead line are at the time of said wall, considering mileage/choppage/stretch/coreshot from prior haul knots etc...)  (I really like 80m lead lines and 85-87m haul lines)

As far as the Swivel on the Protrax at the belay - I think that is overkill, adds extra inches to the system where those inches are better converted to haul mileage..  If your anchor is laid out propa' the swivel on the pigs should negate twistage and CF'age (did I just type that?) at the anchor point..  Keep the anchor simple... You don't want the protrax spinning anyways, then your rope management will be more of a puzzler/ropes course/giardian knot game, than a straight forward act of manual labor..  Save the brain work for the lead, and manual labor for downtime like hauling ;)

whatever you do,
keep smiling :)  
we are so blessed to have the big stone allow us the honor of inching and scratching our way up and along her forgiving and sometimes unforgiving ramparts ..
mastery or no mastery - we must remain humbled ...

too blessed to be stressed,
adam
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 11:14:33 am by kindredlion »

Offline Mike.

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 11:26:01 am »
I can't recall seeing horribly twisted haul lines from not using a swivel. Then again, memory sometimes doesn't serve...

You've gotta love seeing that thing in action, though, while the bag scootches along it's horizontal way. For anything but a quick & dirty outing I have a swivel on every load.


Great to hear ya tooling up, Wade. You might think your questions are noobish, and maybe they are, but it's good to re-think the systems now and again. I'm sure there are many who appreciate the journeyman feedback here.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline mhudon

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 01:33:25 pm »
I'm gong to write up something soon about that whole area, the tie in, the swivel, the biners, the docking cord, etc. My system on the solo was pretty slick.

Offline Mike.

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 03:51:30 pm »
I thought you got belayed on part of your climb?

; }
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline mhudon

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 03:56:22 pm »
Yup, the first three, haul them all though.

You want to step outside and talk about this? ;-)

Offline Mike.

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 04:26:53 pm »
No solo cookie for you, brother. Rad climb, but no solo.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

skully

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 05:56:46 pm »
That's how it goes in these parts, Mark.

I've thought of incorporating a swivel into my system, but I've done ok without it for a LONG time,
& I am poor......Naw. I think I'll just keep on keepin'on. Now if a potential partner had one, I could be talked into it, probably.

Offline BEMHO

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Re: swivel me pigs?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 12:49:43 pm »
I've used the swivel from Petzel for a long time and never looked back.  The CF that can be created by bags without is lame. Lowering a bag on the low angle and watching your rope wrap around the haul line sucks. The weight is not worth mentioning and if your that concerned about another half a pound then your over thinking this whole thing. 
I would and never will do a wall without the swivel on the bag.