Author Topic: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR  (Read 3454 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Baltoro

  • A3+ Copper Bender
  • *****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« on: August 24, 2010, 02:32:06 pm »
This thread is for Nanoonk (Erik Sloan) to attempt to justify his actions on the Great Slab Route. You can read the TR on this site.

This thread is not about name calling or mud-slinging.
This thread is not about Tom Frost and the Salathe Wall.
This thread is not about bolted belays.
This thread is not about past actions of Nanook or even future actions.
In fact this thread isn't even for anyone to reply to except Nanook. Please leave the first reply for him.

All this thread is about is drilling a variation around the crux(s) of GSR. That's it. Nothing else. We already seem to have a growing collection of threads focusing on the big picture. I just want to look at this one instance.

So Erik, here you go: Your very own thread to explain in detail why you thought it was a good idea to bring the drill along and you use it to place new fixed pro on lead.

Focus on this and nothing else please. We'll work in small steps to resolving some of these issues.
Sometimes I succeed. Sometimes I fail. Sometimes I am too lazy to do either.
M. Twight

Offline offset

  • A3+ Copper Bender
  • *****
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 04:18:22 pm »
why are there routes ANYWHERE?    cuz someone had a vision and did it.



as much as these variations and other bolts etc etc are a turn off to so many of you  ...  this thread and other recent ones are turn-offs to newer folks to the walls. 

my response here will not settle anything, will not make friends, will not calm anyone down, will not remove bolts...will not do anything but add 1's and 0's to the universe...but man, am i sick of this topic!!!!



Offline mhudon

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 04:20:40 pm »
I think you need to sit down and answer this one seriously, Erik.

Offline Garbonzo

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 358
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 11:56:37 pm »
Bueller?


Bueller?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 12:32:08 am by Garbonzo »

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 10:55:43 pm »
Looks like Erik laid out all the justification he could muster.

Thanks to everyone who wall climbs and rebolts differently than Erik Sloan. And that's pretty much everyone on the walls.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline Erik Sloan

  • Purveyor of Fine Topos
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Yosemitebigwall.com
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 11:20:44 am »
Yo Gang,

Haven't been around the computer much lately, but see this topic is still hot on many of your minds.

In short, I did what i thought looked fun and obvious, as far as variations went, when I was up there.

I don't expect other people to climb them, or to like them. Just check em up when you climb GSR.

A couple long time Yose climbers have been scoping the route as a free line. They will go the regular way around the roof, which they've already checked out.

Seems like this topic has been around the fire a bunch. Do we have any other confirmed ascents of GSR?

Have fun up there....and let's talk about this more after several of you go climb it(but climb Afroman first cause it's way better).

cheers
e

« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 11:37:05 am by nanook »

Offline Garbonzo

  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 358
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 03:07:52 pm »
"Haven't been around the computer much lately, but see this topic is still hot on many of your minds."

Got to call you out on that one.  I checked and saw you had logged on recently (the 28th, well after this thread was posted) before adding my "Bueller?" message.  You were lurking hoping this thread would fall off the front page rather than answer.

Hard to see even an attempt at justification in your message.  If we all went up with a bolt kit and "did what i thought looked fun and obvious, as far as variations went, when I was up there." then we might as well turn Nutcracker into a sport climb.  Drilling a bolt ladder on an established line is a pretty bold move, hell folks have thrown themselves in front of the ethics mob over a single bolt after features have come off, and here we see a very nonchalant attitude over an entire bolt ladder?  Pretty weak sauce.

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 06:06:53 pm »
"I did what i thought looked fun and obvious"

I appreciate the honest answer.


Fun:

If drilling a bunch of bolts is fun climbing to you, that's fine. Just don't do it on existing routes. Seems such a simple model, and the testament to it's simplistic beauty is that we virtually never need to have these conversations. Everybody pretty much respects fellow climbers' work. You, Erik, are putting your own fun (and your cool, new, easy topos) ahead of respect of those whose shoulders you stand on. I'm talking about prolific and talented climbers with skill and bravado far above yours and mine. Is that not worth respecting? Your actions say it is not. You act as though your experience is more important than those who will come after you and climb better. That's probably even more narcissistic. How about leaving as little impact on the route as possible? Drilling a bunch of pussy holes on a route is a discredit to every climber who will ever trod past them. Dude, get a clue. They are pussy holes, and being a pussy is not what wall climbing is about. It's about stepping up to the challenge or, if that challenge is beyond your comfort zone or capability, finding an alternate suitable challenge.


Obvious:

A plumb line of bolts pointed at the summit might seem obvious, philosophically. But what is obvious about training your drill on a blank, featureless piece of rock and pounding in a bolt? And doing it again, again, and again? I guess it's obvious to construction workers. Erik, be a real big wall climber and stop being a construction worker, shriveling pussy, topo pimp and guy who doesn't give a shit about the vast majority of big wall climbers. In short:

Stop retro drilling on established lines without FA or community consent.


« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 06:16:08 pm by Mike. »
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline Baltoro

  • A3+ Copper Bender
  • *****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 12:15:19 pm »
Erik
I had hoped for a more well thought out response from you but got what I feared most; you did it because you wanted to. This scares me and should scare you. Our community has been relatively small enough that we could police oursleves. People tended to respect one another and the rock. We haven't needed a great deal of oversight from landowners or government agencies. Obviously there's some exceptions to this and they stand out as instances where climbers have at worst lost access or at best got a bad name. The Ken Nichols debacle and Delicate Arch come to mind. More locally for me we had an unfortunate incident at Frenchman's Coulee, a basalt area a couple hours east of Seattle. A bolter and an un-bolter went back and forth until one of them took a hydraulic jack and toppled the column they were fighting over. This doesn't seem that far off from two kids fighting in a sandbox over a toy truck until one kid destroys it so neither of them can have it. Now I don't imagine anyone is going to topple Washington Column anytime soon with a jack but in the longterm the equivalent could happen. The NPS could step in if climbers can't police themselves. They could restrict climbing, perhaps adding a permit system to limit traffic and generate revenue for a massively underfunded system. Why shouldn't they? Let's not give them any reasons to.

We have to police ourselves and sometimes that means infirnging upon the personal freedoms of a few here and there for the greater good of the community. If in fact you did what you thought was fun then that's fine but hopefully at least you can appreciate that what you see as "fun" is an atrocity to others and could potentially have far-reaching negative impacts. I hope you take a fraction of this to heart and really evaluate whether what you're doing is worth it. I'm sure Ammon had a blast during his recent BASE jump off El Cap but I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that it's at least a somewhat selfish act that could have negative impacts on climbers and BASE jumpers in the future. I would imagine "No Trespassing" signs within 100ft. of the summit of El Cap and rangers and fines to enforce it would be a bit of a drag for all climbers. Obviously these are extreme consequences for his and your actions but we have to be careful that we're not headed in that direction. Thanks for your time in reading and responding to this thread and again I hope you give it some thought. I'll PM this to you as well just in case so you don't miss it.

Cheers!

Ryan
Sometimes I succeed. Sometimes I fail. Sometimes I am too lazy to do either.
M. Twight

Offline Burt

  • A1 fiend
  • **
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 01:05:43 pm »
Very well put Ryan thank you.

Offline Erik Sloan

  • Purveyor of Fine Topos
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Yosemitebigwall.com
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 11:48:42 pm »
Sorry for the misunderstanding Garbo--I didn't mean I hadn't been at the computer at alll, just that I"ve been just checking email and checking in with the forums--not spending enough time to get involved in a discussion. I didn't even read this thread till the other day because it just looked my more intellectualizing instead of someone talking from the experience of going and climbing the mountain. In my experience these two experiences, abstract dissertation and actual experience, can be quite distinct.

No one's climbed GSR? Come on gang. Git sum!

No mention is there are other confirmed ascents. I know a lot of old timers here and really searched far and wide trying to find any mention of an ascent, but couldn't.

cheers
e
 

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 09:24:22 am »
Banter, sidestepping and smoke. Classic Erik Sloan.

Nobody has to climb the Great Slab Route to know that drilling one's way around cruxes of a route without FA or community consent is wrong and should not be happening.


« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 09:29:49 am by Mike. »
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

Offline Baltoro

  • A3+ Copper Bender
  • *****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 11:21:37 am »
Erik
Certainly climbing the route before commenting on it would be nice but since you provided us with such a lovely trip report, complete with photos I think we can safely comment on the addition of bolts. Perhaps though the crux fell off entirely, leaving a complately blank slab. My guess is you would have mentioned this by now so no, people don't have to climb it to have grounds for commenting.

You are avoiding the questions that are being asked by rational, polite and active climbers. These aren't the cries of the "peanut gallery" or the old-folks who just don't get it anymore. These are your contemporaries, your community. You're attempting to back down from this crux and drill around it, just like you did on GSR. It shows an incredible lack of character and integrity. I don't know you personally and I'm sure you're a nice guy but you are being a coward, plain and simple.
Sometimes I succeed. Sometimes I fail. Sometimes I am too lazy to do either.
M. Twight

Offline goatboy

  • A1 fiend
  • **
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2010, 05:05:31 pm »

No one's climbed GSR? Come on gang. Git sum!

No mention is there are other confirmed ascents. I know a lot of old timers here and really searched far and wide trying to find any mention of an ascent, but couldn't.


I climbed it in '96 but I'm not sure what you're asking for? Are you asking if anyone has done the original or your easier version?
Please elaborate.

Offline Erik Sloan

  • Purveyor of Fine Topos
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Yosemitebigwall.com
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2010, 10:03:56 am »
Awesome Goatboy. Was there some old gear at the belay below the roof? before you go down and around?

What's your name?

Who'd you climb it with?

Offline Mike.

  • Bigwall Shaman
  • A4+ Dreamer
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2010, 11:36:37 am »
That's a lot of questions for a guy with no real answers himself.

I'll bet goatboy didn't lead with a drill and use it to bore holes around cruxes. I'll bet on that route nobody would have ever done that if not for the bottom feeder tactics of you, Erik Sloan.

Climb fairly or bail. The community says "no" to the type of desecration that was done on Great Slab Route.


Let's stay on topic--as much as Erik would like the topic to be something else.
Say no to limbers, excavators and retro-bolters. No matter how much he smiles.

skully

  • Guest
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2010, 07:12:43 pm »
Nanook, It's not a variation UNLESS it's a feature. You know this. Bolt ladders are bullshit. Anyone can do THAT.
That's my issue with the whole deal. A bolt ladder can only come into being on an FA, when a splitter turns out to be a streak, or some shit.
Squeezer ladders are lame. Please let's not do this, eh?

Offline goatboy

  • A1 fiend
  • **
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Nanook's Rational for drilling a variation to GSR
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2010, 08:04:10 pm »
I did it with a British friend Noel Bigelow, my name is Eric Patterson.

We went up to do Electric Ladyland but realized we may not have enough water so opted for the GSR instead. I don?t remember much fixed gear, nothing that stands out like slings at the belay below the roof. I think I would have remembered that since Noel led out the A4 pitches and I was belaying for long time.

I really don?t care how you climb Erik but when the response from the mob is this strong you should probably knot blow off what you did as inconsequential.

cheers
E